The second and third greatest knuckleball pitchers of all time?

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I guess Satchel Paige's rookie cards would have been the 1949 Leaf and the 1949 Bowman cards. Never know it though given how much some sellers ask for his 1953 Topps card. I don't like the design of the 1953 Topps Baseball cards anyway which is a real pity since that's the last year for both Satchel Paige and the St. Louis Browns.

I really like most of the 1953 player paintings. Word is that they were done by a number of different artists...some were not good (ex: Minoso)...lots were very good (ex: Paige)...and a few were great (ex: Mantle)! IMO, of course...

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I really like most of the 1953 player paintings. Word is that they were done by a number of different artists...some were not good (ex: Minoso)...lots were very good (ex: Paige)...and a few were great (ex: Mantle)! IMO, of course...

Agreed, 53 is one of my favorite sets, love the portraits. 53 Mays is an abomination unfortunately.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Behind "Knucksie" and Wilhelm, I might go with Eddie “Knuckles” Cicotte, who is considered the first to master the pitch.

Cicotte had some of the best years of any pitcher of his era in 1913, 1917, and 1919 when he was a combined 75 wins vs. 30 losses during those years and an ERA well below 2.00 each of those seasons.

Cocotte went 21-10 in 1920 before he was banned from baseball as part of his being a major part of the Black Sox scandal. Had he continued playing a few more years (and avoided scandal), he may very well have become HOF worthy.

I agree! Absolutely HOF worthy without the Black Sox scandal.

While the origins of the knuckleball are uncertain, Eddie Cicotte was probably the first pitcher to use it on a regular basis. And Cicotte had some outstanding years with the Chicago White Sox. In 1913 he was 18-11 with an ERA of 1.58 pitching 268 innings while completing 18 of the 30 games he started. In 1917 he was 28-12 with an ERA of 1.53 pitching 346 2/3 innings while completing 29 of the 35 games he started. And in 1919 at the age of 35 (at season's end) he was 29-7 with an ERA of 1.82 pitching 306 2/3 innings while completing 30 of the 35 games he started. Evidently White Sox owner Charles Comiskey ordered manager Kid Gleason to bench Cicotte for the last five games because Cicotte would under his contract have earned a $10,000 bonus had he reached the 30 victory mark!

But Cicotte was forced to retire late in the 1920 season after being banned for life by Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis for being one of the players implicated in the Chicago Black Sox World Series scandal of 1919.



The infamous scandal has acted to almost completely overshadow Cicotte's pitching achievements.

[Balticfox]

Here's an interesting detail:

Bob Feller was a 35-year-old veteran of 15 major-league seasons in 1954 when the Cleveland Indians won 111 games and swept to the American League pennant by eight games over the New York Yankees. His fastball had lost a good deal of its luster and manager Al Lopez had reportedly wanted to release him during spring training. Lopez, however, was overruled by general manager Hank Greenberg, who was worried about fan reaction, particularly since Feller had pitched pretty well in 1953, winning 10 while losing seven.

His fastball revived to the extent that, if not back to 1940s standards, it was above average. He had developed a sinker to go with his curveball and slider, and sometimes even broke out a knuckleball.

That detail makes Bob Feller's 1953 Topps' card even more intriguing to me although I don't much like the set's design:

(Not mine.)

[Balticfox]

MLB Knuckleball Reel

Good luck hitting these!

[Knucksie49]

In 1945 the Washington Senators pitching staff had four starters and one relief pitcher who threw the knuckleballs. This staff pitched 1005 of the 1412 innings that year. Dutch Leonard, who was the guy who was an anchor of the staff, and the guy that gave rise to a young kid in North Carolina named James Hoyt Wilhelm, was 17-7 with a 2.13 ERA. I think he also deserves to be on the short list. Jackie Robinson said, "I am glad of one thing, and that is I don't have to hit against Dutch Leonard every day. Man, what a knuckleball that fellow has. It comes up, makes a face at you, then runs away."

[frankbmd]

I'll pass on the second and third greatest knuckles, but Hoyt was number one in my book, who also benefitted from having the best knuckle ball catcher with his giant oversized mitt, Gus Triandos.