David Hall talks about The Wagner

[calvindog]

I guess Bill lied about trimming the card when he was secretly recorded in undercover videos admitting he trimmed it. Or when he recently publicly admitted he still owns the paper slicer he used to trim the Wagner.

Does David Hall have dementia or is he just another lying hobby scumbag?

[rats60]

Wasn't Bill Hughes in the room? Hasn't he said that he knew the card had been cut from a sheet?

https://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_62.html

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rats60

Wasn't Bill Hughes in the room? Hasn't he said that he knew the card had been cut from a sheet?

https://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_62.html

No, and I would believe about 80% of what O'keefe ever said. He lied about something I had said before, so he could easily lie again. He totally changed a sentence told to him and made it look like something else was said, which to me, is a lie.
.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Leon

No, and I would believe about 80% of what O'keefe ever said. He lied about something I had said before, so he could easily lie again.
.

I hear you. How I'd love to weigh in with my opinion, but the forum rules...

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's sheet cut anyway, whether or not it was then trimmed again. Who cares.

I personally think David Hall is in deep denial.

[Luke]

It's a pretty bad hack job, hard to believe anyone who looks at a lot of t206s could miss the trim.

[Peter_Spaeth]

His own collection was said to have many trimmed cards.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's sheet cut anyway, whether or not it was then trimmed again. Who cares.

I personally think David Hall is in deep denial.

Frankly I have never understood this. If I get a 1962 Post Cereal card that was "sheet cut" in the first place, would it matter if, today, I trimmed it? If so, why.

It seems to me that Wagner deserved an Auth grade based on it being cut from a sheet, and subsequent cutting was no more an alteration than the original cutting.

In other words, why would cutting a card from a sheet be acceptable, but cutting it a second time be criminal?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Frankly I have never understood this. If I get a 1962 Post Cereal card that was "sheet cut" in the first place, would it matter if, today, I trimmed it? If so, why.

It seems to me that Wagner deserved an Auth grade based on it being cut from a sheet, and subsequent cutting was no more an alteration than the original cutting.

In other words, why would cutting a card from a sheet be acceptable, but cutting it a second time be criminal?

I've said this many times, and it NEVER seems to gain any traction. I think you've analyzed it perfectly.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Frankly I have never understood this. If I get a 1962 Post Cereal card that was "sheet cut" in the first place, would it matter if, today, I trimmed it? If so, why.

The difference between a Post Cereal card and the Honus Wagner card is that Post Cereal cards were distributed as panels that were intended to be cut by kids. The Honus Wagner card was intended to be distributed as a single factory cut card in cigarette packs. And that's a very big difference.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Frankly I have never understood this. If I get a 1962 Post Cereal card that was "sheet cut" in the first place, would it matter if, today, I trimmed it? If so, why.

It seems to me that Wagner deserved an Auth grade based on it being cut from a sheet, and subsequent cutting was no more an alteration than the original cutting.

In other words, why would cutting a card from a sheet be acceptable, but cutting it a second time be criminal?

It's not. As I've maintained over and over again, he wasn't convicted for trimming the Wagner. Don't let the clown lawyers around here convince you that someone agreeing to a plea deal that mentions the Wagner trimming among a laundry list of a dozen other far more serious offenses equates to him having actually committed a crime with respect to trimming that card. "Obtaining a conviction" via a plea deal and being "convicted" by a judge and jury are not the same thing. I don't care what your hobby lawyer friends tell you. Even if they're the best lawyers on the planet. They're lying to you. That's what they get paid to do.

[doug.goodman]

Every thread needs a card, and this is what would have happened if Dmitri Young had submitted it...

[calvindog]

LOL Doug, that is funny. Anytime I see a card with his pedigree on the flip, I run. He wasn’t exactly shy about his actions.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Leon

No, and I would believe about 80% of what O'keefe ever said. He lied about something I had said before, so he could easily lie again. He totally changed a sentence told to him and made it look like something else was said, which to me, is a lie.
.

This was put in print by Harper Collins, one of the biggest publishing houses in the world. Their legal department would have wanted interviews recorded to protect themselves from lawsuits. If this was false, Bill Hughes would be able to sue the authors and the publisher.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by rats60

Wasn't Bill Hughes in the room? Hasn't he said that he knew the card had been cut from a sheet?

https://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_62.html

Yes he has:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

In 2005, PSA Grader Bill Hughes, a grader of the T206 Honus Wager card, admitted in an interview with New York Daily News reporter Michael O'Keeffe that he knew the card had been trimmed when he graded the card.

I'm not buying David Hall's story.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rats60

Wasn't Bill Hughes in the room? Hasn't he said that he knew the card had been cut from a sheet?

https://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_62.html

Ok. I stand corrected on that. I was told something else but will just leave it as my apparent misunderstanding.
I can't imagine they would put a quote in print, like that, if they didn't have firsthand knowlege of the conversation...or an irrefutable source.
.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I guess Bill lied about trimming the card when he was secretly recorded in undercover videos admitting he trimmed it. Or when he recently publicly admitted he still owns the paper slicer he used to trim the Wagner.

Does David Hall have dementia or is he just another lying hobby scumbag?

Mic drop…

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I guess Bill lied about trimming the card when he was secretly recorded in undercover videos admitting he trimmed it. Or when he recently publicly admitted he still owns the paper slicer he used to trim the Wagner.

Does David Hall have dementia or is he just another lying hobby scumbag?

Can't speculate as to the former, but res ip on the latter.

C'mon, Leon, regardless of your views on O'Keeffe, give your devil his due: he was right that The Card has been doctored. Please don't fall in with the fantasists who still defend 'The Card' even after the guy who cut it up admitted that he cut it up. Don't sit with Linus waiting for The Great Pumpkin. You'll miss tricks or treats.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Can't speculate as to the former, but res ip on the latter.

C'mon, Leon, regardless of your views on O'Keeffe, give your devil his due: he was right that The Card has been doctored. Please don't fall in with the fantasists who still defend 'The Card' even after the guy who cut it up admitted that he cut it up. Don't sit with Linus waiting for The Great Pumpkin. You'll miss tricks or treats.

Where did I say it's unaltered? It is altered. I just said I don't think the grader knew it at the time.
I said Okeefe isn't a good reporter, imo. And that is due to how he reported something about me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Just my opinion, but I would bet both Hall and Hughes at least strongly suspected the sheet cut card had been further trimmed. People who have seen the card say it's fairly obvious.

[bobbvc]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Just my opinion, but I would bet both Hall and Hughes at least strongly suspected the sheet cut card had been further trimmed. People who have seen the card say it's fairly obvious.

I saw the card in Anaheim around 2005 or so, whenever the last National was there. My first thoughts were, 1. This card is obviously trimmed. 2. It is WAY more obvious in person than in any photo or scan I had seen.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Just my opinion, but I would bet both Hall and Hughes at least strongly suspected the sheet cut card had been further trimmed. People who have seen the card say it's fairly obvious.

I haven't seen the card in person. You might be right.
The only thing I am real sure of is that my 5 dogs and 2 fosters need to be fed and taken care of today. That I am sure of. The rest is always a little bit fuzzy. Is that called plausible deniability?
.

[ruth-gehrig]

Regraded today what is it getting?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Regraded today what is it getting?

It won't be, so the question is moot.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Regraded today what is it getting?

AUTH first because it's sheet cut and second because from there it was trimmed. That said, they would know it's the same card and stubbornly stick it in an 8 holder again.

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Just my opinion, but I would bet both Hall and Hughes at least strongly suspected the sheet cut card had been further trimmed. People who have seen the card say it's fairly obvious.

You suddenly reminded me of Alan "Mr. Mint" Rosen buying Charlie Sheen's stolen T206 Wagner for $13k, and then telling the FBI that he didn't know it was hot! That's what this feels like here, and appears that David Hall, or even PSA is trying to reinvent themselves - or at the very least, trying to fool a new generation of collectors that - "There's nothing to see here folks, move along" Frank Drebin style!

[jchcollins]

Deleting due to factual error in what I assumed and said...

[raulus]

Originally Posted by topcat61

You suddenly reminded me of Alan "Mr. Mint" Rosen buying Charlie Sheen's stolen T206 Wagner for $13k, and then telling the FBI that he didn't know it was hot! That's what this feels like here, and appears that David Hall, or even PSA is trying to reinvent themselves - or at the very least, trying to fool a new generation of collectors that - "There's nothing to see here folks, move along" Frank Drebin style!

Move along!

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

What year was any Wagner last $13K? Not at any time when Sheen was buying!