I may have to sue Fanatics or Fedex-UPDATED 5/8/25 AT END OF THREAD

[nwobhm]

The Jordan Holy Grail is a card that is picked up in person. No way in Hell I would trust the shitbirds at UPS FedEx or USPS with that.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

The Jordan Holy Grail is a card that is picked up in person. No way in Hell I would trust the shitbirds at UPS FedEx or USPS with that.

I sniff driver larceny in this sad tale.
If delivery services had any idea the righteous anger of collectors, who have saved, done their homework and bought a big card, only to find it has gone astray due to the carrier's negligence might think about improving service by vetting their drivers more carefully

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Yoda

If delivery services had any idea the righteous anger of collectors, who have saved, done their homework and bought a big card, only to find it has gone astray due to the carrier's negligence might think about improving service by vetting their drivers more carefully

That won't do it. The only thing that could give the delivery services pause is a court ruling with mega punitive damages for negligence over and above full compensation to the individual who didn't get delivery.

[samosa4u]

This is every card guy's worst nightmare! I'm sorry this had to happen to you.

Using a company like FedEx or UPS or DHL overnight and getting signature provides extra layers of security, but nothing is a hundred-perfect safe. Like many of you posted already, picking up your parcel from one of the nearest locations to your home can provide you with even more security.

I've had many parcels get shipped to me through FedEx and they're pretty good here (Toronto). There was only one time where the American sender didn't get signature and my package was left at the wrong house. When we called customer service, they reached out to the driver and he told them that he had left it at the right house. This went on for a few days, but then the driver brought the package to my house and handed it to my mother (he apologized).

I've had Canada Post deliver my packages to the wrong houses a few times - total nightmare. I even had to chase the CP worker down the street once and make him retrieve my package!

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

That won't do it. The only thing that could give the delivery services pause is a court ruling with mega punitive damages for negligence over and above full compensation to the individual who didn't get delivery.

The thing about puntive damages is that they're intended to punish for malevolence, negligence, etc. They should therefore not go to the plaintiff (who's already receiving full compensation) but to say a charity fund. This would have the effect of increasing the size of punitive damage awards enormously.

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

You can blame the individual drivers all you want, but it's a top/down attitude, likely connected to delivery speed quotas, along with getting docked for bringing packages that haven't been signed for back to the building.

I doubt very many FedEx drivers are pilfering packages themselves. It's just too easy to get caught at that stage of the delivery, and your movements are tracked from minute to minute. What they ARE doing is, whatever they can to keep from bringing a package back to the building, which includes scrawling fake signatures, and leaving packages where they can easily be pilfered by others, or out in the weather, or just straight up mis-delivering...sometimes with a fake sig.

Usually the out for the fake sig is "Talked to the customer earlier, and they said I could sign for them".

Of course they are told not to do this by their supervisors.....followed by a tacit wink, wink, and a "do whatever you have to do to keep your job" kick in the ass on the way out the door in the morning.

I WAS a delivery driver in a former life. We have a front covered porch that's out of the weather, that every delivery driver wishes for, when they drop off a package at any house.

We've had FedEx drivers leave packages at the top of the driveway by the mailbox next to the road, in the driveway, right in front of the garage door ready to get run over when you go to back out, in the yard to the side of the driveway, in the little pull off parking spot halfway down the drive....etc....

Hell, we even had a Chewy Dog Food box left at the end of a neighbors driveway a 1/2 mile down the street a month ago or so. Got the "Delivered" notice, complete with a picture of the box in a strangers driveway, that was definitely not our own. Not even at HIS front door, but perched on a wall at the end of his driveway. Thankfully the neighbor was kind enough to truck it back to our house before we figured out exactly where it was misdelivered to.

No rhyme or reason either. Not all the FedEx drivers do that, but we seem to live in a sort of delivery dead spot that gets a different driver every day.

The other delivery outfits don't deliver in the same manner... at least not in my experience.

Not USPS, not UPS, not even Amazon does that, and we might get 3 different Amazon drivers in a single day.

Just FedEx and some other delivery outfit named "Uniuni" that we get every once in awhile.

Hell, the others might tear up our gravel driveway, and occasionally back into our garage...but at least they get the package where it's supposed to go.

There's also the fact, FedEx will notoriously take all the money you want to give them for Insurance coverage, but then dance around what and how much they will actually cover if something actually goes down. That's a directive all the way from the top to be that evasive in your practices.

Like I say, punitive damages. That's the solution.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

The thing about puntive damages is that they're intended to punish for malevolence, negligence, etc. They should therefore not go to the plaintiff (who's already receiving full compensation) but to say a charity fund. This would have the effect of increasing the size of punitive damage awards enormously.



Like I say, punitive damages. That's the solution.

No, the solution here is to resolve it. Even if punitive damages were available in a lawsuit, Fed Ex is a company with a 65 BILLION dollar market cap, I hardly think a punitive damages award in a suit for a 40K loss/theft is going to matter to them. People constantly overstate the in terrorem effect of civil litigation, not to mention have very little understanding of how hard it is to bring a class action in most circumstances.

[frankbmd]

My Fedex story is one where the seller insisted on my signature when the package was delivered and it was cards. Fedex notified me that the package would be delivered during the morning hours. In our gated community theft is not a problem, but the seller insisted. The value of the parcel was $400, not 40K.

I waited at home for the morning delivery that did not happen. I continued to wait, pen in hand, but at 4PM there was a loud thud at the front door (that sounded like a break in attempt). I went the front door and my package was on the ground having been pitched by the driver at my door. The truck was pulling away when I looked up.

The seller packaged the cards well and they survived the bombing of my front door. Fortunately the front door survived as well. I never saw a signature of the driver and I suspect his office didn't either. With all the tales mentioned in this thread, my own position about signature verification on delivery seems vindicated.

Waiting 8 hours for a bomb to explode at the front door does not seem warranted either.

The nearest pick up location offered by Fedex is 20 miles away (40 miles for the round trip)

Hopefully things will work out more favorably for the OP as well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I only skimmed but have you contacted Fanatics, explained the situation, and asked them to deal with Fed Ex as they are the customer?

[russkcpa]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I only skimmed but have you contacted Fanatics, explained the situation, and asked them to deal with Fed Ex as they are the customer?

Hi Peter,
Yes I have. Chris Peerboom is my personal rep at Fanatics. He is looking into it with their logistics department. As I said, my concern here is that if the insurance company for Fanatics sees the "squiggle" that represents a signature, will they deem themselves off the hook ??

Based on much of what I've read this phony signature is quite common. I am prepared to file a lawsuit with Fedex. I think they are WELL AWARE of this type of practice where the driver signs and just drops a package. I only wish we had closed circuit cameras in the lobby OR outside to see if this was the case.

[nolemmings]

It would probably depend on the terms and conditions of any agreement you had with Fanatics, but it seems to me you could have a claim against Fanatics for failure to deliver the card you purchased. You would argue that FedEx is their agent responsible for taking the proper steps to ensure delivery and while you do not know exactly what happened, you can establish that the card never arrived through no fault of your own. Contracts between buyer and seller generally address the issue of who bears the loss in either of two ways-- it is the buyer's problem once it reaches the shipper (out of seller's control) or it is the seller's problem until it reaches the destination. You might still have to rebut an argument that it reached the destination as shown by the squiggle, but that is a fact question that you face against either FedEx or Fanatics anyway.

I assume that if you are going to sue anyone it will be through a lawyer, so it would be worthwhile to consult with one now if you have not and ask about all options, although a good lawyer need not be asked that question in the first place.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

It would probably depend on the terms and conditions of any agreement you had with Fanatics, but it seems to me you could have a claim against Fanatics for failure to deliver the card you purchased. You would argue that FedEx is their agent responsible for taking the proper steps to ensure delivery and while you do not know exactly what happened, you can establish that the card never arrived through no fault of your own. Contracts between buyer and seller generally address the issue of who bears the loss in either of two ways-- it is the buyer's problem once it reaches the shipper (out of seller's control) or it is the seller's problem until it reaches the destination. You might still have to rebut an argument that it reached the destination as shown by the squiggle, but that is a fact question that you face against either FedEx or Fanatics anyway.

I assume that if you are going to sue anyone it will be through a lawyer, so it would be worthwhile to consult with one now if you have not and ask about all options, although a good lawyer need not be asked that question in the first place.

Yeah, this is what I was thinking too. Do you sue Fanatics or FedEx or both ?? These are questions you need to ask a lawyer.

Also, are there any buildings across or near to you with cameras ?? Maybe they have cameras pointing towards your building ??

And because of the high amount involved here, do you not have to notify the police ??

[D. Bergin]

You can blame the individual drivers all you want, but it's a top/down attitude, likely connected to delivery speed quotas, along with getting docked for bringing packages that haven't been signed for back to the building.

I doubt very many FedEx drivers are pilfering packages themselves. It's just too easy to get caught at that stage of the delivery, and your movements are tracked from minute to minute. What they ARE doing is, whatever they can to keep from bringing a package back to the building, which includes scrawling fake signatures, and leaving packages where they can easily be pilfered by others, or out in the weather, or just straight up mis-delivering...sometimes with a fake sig.

Usually the out for the fake sig is "Talked to the customer earlier, and they said I could sign for them".

Of course they are told not to do this by their supervisors.....followed by a tacit wink, wink, and a "do whatever you have to do to keep your job" kick in the ass on the way out the door in the morning.

I WAS a delivery driver in a former life. We have a front covered porch that's out of the weather, that every delivery driver wishes for, when they drop off a package at any house.

We've had FedEx drivers leave packages at the top of the driveway by the mailbox next to the road, in the driveway, right in front of the garage door ready to get run over when you go to back out, in the yard to the side of the driveway, in the little pull off parking spot halfway down the drive....etc....

Hell, we even had a Chewy Dog Food box left at the end of a neighbors driveway a 1/2 mile down the street a month ago or so. Got the "Delivered" notice, complete with a picture of the box in a strangers driveway, that was definitely not our own. Not even at HIS front door, but perched on a wall at the end of his driveway. Thankfully the neighbor was kind enough to truck it back to our house before we figured out exactly where it was misdelivered to.

No rhyme or reason either. Not all the FedEx drivers do that, but we seem to live in a sort of delivery dead spot that gets a different driver every day.

The other delivery outfits don't deliver in the same manner... at least not in my experience.

Not USPS, not UPS, not even Amazon does that, and we might get 3 different Amazon drivers in a single day.

Just FedEx and some other delivery outfit named "Uniuni" that we get every once in awhile.

Hell, the others might tear up our gravel driveway, and occasionally back into our garage...but at least they get the package where it's supposed to go.

There's also the fact, FedEx will notoriously take all the money you want to give them for Insurance coverage, but then dance around what and how much they will actually cover if something actually goes down. That's a directive all the way from the top to be that evasive in your practices.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

It would probably depend on the terms and conditions of any agreement you had with Fanatics, but it seems to me you could have a claim against Fanatics for failure to deliver the card you purchased. You would argue that FedEx is their agent responsible for taking the proper steps to ensure delivery and while you do not know exactly what happened, you can establish that the card never arrived through no fault of your own. Contracts between buyer and seller generally address the issue of who bears the loss in either of two ways-- it is the buyer's problem once it reaches the shipper (out of seller's control) or it is the seller's problem until it reaches the destination. You might still have to rebut an argument that it reached the destination as shown by the squiggle, but that is a fact question that you face against either FedEx or Fanatics anyway.

I assume that if you are going to sue anyone it will be through a lawyer, so it would be worthwhile to consult with one now if you have not and ask about all options, although a good lawyer need not be asked that question in the first place.

Right, check the terms and conditions for sure. I do think the presumption, if the agreement does not provide otherwise, is that the seller's risk of loss ends upon tender to a common carrier. But that said, Fanatics sure as hell does not want or need bad publicity and if they can't work this out with their insurer or Fed Ex, they may still not want to stiff Russ. Anyhow, lawsuit here should be last resort.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

Hi Peter,
Yes I have. Chris Peerboom is my personal rep at Fanatics. He is looking into it with their logistics department. As I said, my concern here is that if the insurance company for Fanatics sees the "squiggle" that represents a signature, will they deem themselves off the hook ??

Based on much of what I've read this phony signature is quite common. I am prepared to file a lawsuit with Fedex. I think they are WELL AWARE of this type of practice where the driver signs and just drops a package. I only wish we had closed circuit cameras in the lobby OR outside to see if this was the case.

The signature, to me, appears self-evidently fake. Fanatics may have some leverage also, it's a huge business beyond the auction site. I am optimistic you will work this out without having to file a lawsuit, which is rarely the best solution for any small (in context, not being denigrating here) dispute.

[ALR-bishop]

Everytime I have been asked to sign for a package, usually electronically, whether I use my finger or an object or a pen, no one, incuding me, would recognize the signature. Any mark or scratching seems to suffice. Others may be more careful or precise or encounter delivery people who are more particular.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Everytime I have been asked to sign for a package, usually electronically, whether I use my finger or an object or a pen, no one, incuding me, would recognize the signature. Any mark or scratching seems to suffice. Others may be more careful or precise or encounter delivery people who are more particular.

Kind of like modern autograph cards, eh?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Everytime I have been asked to sign for a package, usually electronically, whether I use my finger or an object or a pen, no one, incuding me, would recognize the signature. Any mark or scratching seems to suffice. Others may be more careful or precise or encounter delivery people who are more particular.

The OP said that he has signed for many other packages in the past from FedEx and others. I would think it would be possible to compare some of those signatures with the one for this delivery.

[Mozzie22]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

The Jordan Holy Grail is a card that is picked up in person. No way in Hell I would trust the shitbirds at UPS FedEx or USPS with that.

This. Why would anyone ship a $40k card?