I may have to sue Fanatics or Fedex-UPDATED 5/8/25 AT END OF THREAD

[russkcpa]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I only skimmed but have you contacted Fanatics, explained the situation, and asked them to deal with Fed Ex as they are the customer?

Hi Peter,
Yes I have. Chris Peerboom is my personal rep at Fanatics. He is looking into it with their logistics department. As I said, my concern here is that if the insurance company for Fanatics sees the "squiggle" that represents a signature, will they deem themselves off the hook ??

Based on much of what I've read this phony signature is quite common. I am prepared to file a lawsuit with Fedex. I think they are WELL AWARE of this type of practice where the driver signs and just drops a package. I only wish we had closed circuit cameras in the lobby OR outside to see if this was the case.

[nolemmings]

It would probably depend on the terms and conditions of any agreement you had with Fanatics, but it seems to me you could have a claim against Fanatics for failure to deliver the card you purchased. You would argue that FedEx is their agent responsible for taking the proper steps to ensure delivery and while you do not know exactly what happened, you can establish that the card never arrived through no fault of your own. Contracts between buyer and seller generally address the issue of who bears the loss in either of two ways-- it is the buyer's problem once it reaches the shipper (out of seller's control) or it is the seller's problem until it reaches the destination. You might still have to rebut an argument that it reached the destination as shown by the squiggle, but that is a fact question that you face against either FedEx or Fanatics anyway.

I assume that if you are going to sue anyone it will be through a lawyer, so it would be worthwhile to consult with one now if you have not and ask about all options, although a good lawyer need not be asked that question in the first place.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

It would probably depend on the terms and conditions of any agreement you had with Fanatics, but it seems to me you could have a claim against Fanatics for failure to deliver the card you purchased. You would argue that FedEx is their agent responsible for taking the proper steps to ensure delivery and while you do not know exactly what happened, you can establish that the card never arrived through no fault of your own. Contracts between buyer and seller generally address the issue of who bears the loss in either of two ways-- it is the buyer's problem once it reaches the shipper (out of seller's control) or it is the seller's problem until it reaches the destination. You might still have to rebut an argument that it reached the destination as shown by the squiggle, but that is a fact question that you face against either FedEx or Fanatics anyway.

I assume that if you are going to sue anyone it will be through a lawyer, so it would be worthwhile to consult with one now if you have not and ask about all options, although a good lawyer need not be asked that question in the first place.

Yeah, this is what I was thinking too. Do you sue Fanatics or FedEx or both ?? These are questions you need to ask a lawyer.

Also, are there any buildings across or near to you with cameras ?? Maybe they have cameras pointing towards your building ??

And because of the high amount involved here, do you not have to notify the police ??

[D. Bergin]

You can blame the individual drivers all you want, but it's a top/down attitude, likely connected to delivery speed quotas, along with getting docked for bringing packages that haven't been signed for back to the building.

I doubt very many FedEx drivers are pilfering packages themselves. It's just too easy to get caught at that stage of the delivery, and your movements are tracked from minute to minute. What they ARE doing is, whatever they can to keep from bringing a package back to the building, which includes scrawling fake signatures, and leaving packages where they can easily be pilfered by others, or out in the weather, or just straight up mis-delivering...sometimes with a fake sig.

Usually the out for the fake sig is "Talked to the customer earlier, and they said I could sign for them".

Of course they are told not to do this by their supervisors.....followed by a tacit wink, wink, and a "do whatever you have to do to keep your job" kick in the ass on the way out the door in the morning.

I WAS a delivery driver in a former life. We have a front covered porch that's out of the weather, that every delivery driver wishes for, when they drop off a package at any house.

We've had FedEx drivers leave packages at the top of the driveway by the mailbox next to the road, in the driveway, right in front of the garage door ready to get run over when you go to back out, in the yard to the side of the driveway, in the little pull off parking spot halfway down the drive....etc....

Hell, we even had a Chewy Dog Food box left at the end of a neighbors driveway a 1/2 mile down the street a month ago or so. Got the "Delivered" notice, complete with a picture of the box in a strangers driveway, that was definitely not our own. Not even at HIS front door, but perched on a wall at the end of his driveway. Thankfully the neighbor was kind enough to truck it back to our house before we figured out exactly where it was misdelivered to.

No rhyme or reason either. Not all the FedEx drivers do that, but we seem to live in a sort of delivery dead spot that gets a different driver every day.

The other delivery outfits don't deliver in the same manner... at least not in my experience.

Not USPS, not UPS, not even Amazon does that, and we might get 3 different Amazon drivers in a single day.

Just FedEx and some other delivery outfit named "Uniuni" that we get every once in awhile.

Hell, the others might tear up our gravel driveway, and occasionally back into our garage...but at least they get the package where it's supposed to go.

There's also the fact, FedEx will notoriously take all the money you want to give them for Insurance coverage, but then dance around what and how much they will actually cover if something actually goes down. That's a directive all the way from the top to be that evasive in your practices.

[D. Bergin]

I do think one of the pitfalls of having a Private Insurance carrier, especially with very high value packages, is that the carriers themselves have no idea they are handling a high value package, so the chain of custody could end up being much more lax.

I'm sure if the driver who mis-delivered/pilfered/left out in the open, whatever...knew he was handling a 40K package, there's no way he would have forged a signature and been as careless as he was with that package.

When I was at UPS (and I'm going by memory, so the numbers might be slightly off), anything that was declared over 2K was handled and packed on the truck separate from everything else and was adult signature required whether it was requested by the shipper or not...and anything over 5K was handled and shipped in completely different shipping containers and with a chain of custody far different then the rest of the normal shipments.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

It would probably depend on the terms and conditions of any agreement you had with Fanatics, but it seems to me you could have a claim against Fanatics for failure to deliver the card you purchased. You would argue that FedEx is their agent responsible for taking the proper steps to ensure delivery and while you do not know exactly what happened, you can establish that the card never arrived through no fault of your own. Contracts between buyer and seller generally address the issue of who bears the loss in either of two ways-- it is the buyer's problem once it reaches the shipper (out of seller's control) or it is the seller's problem until it reaches the destination. You might still have to rebut an argument that it reached the destination as shown by the squiggle, but that is a fact question that you face against either FedEx or Fanatics anyway.

I assume that if you are going to sue anyone it will be through a lawyer, so it would be worthwhile to consult with one now if you have not and ask about all options, although a good lawyer need not be asked that question in the first place.

Right, check the terms and conditions for sure. I do think the presumption, if the agreement does not provide otherwise, is that the seller's risk of loss ends upon tender to a common carrier. But that said, Fanatics sure as hell does not want or need bad publicity and if they can't work this out with their insurer or Fed Ex, they may still not want to stiff Russ. Anyhow, lawsuit here should be last resort.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

Hi Peter,
Yes I have. Chris Peerboom is my personal rep at Fanatics. He is looking into it with their logistics department. As I said, my concern here is that if the insurance company for Fanatics sees the "squiggle" that represents a signature, will they deem themselves off the hook ??

Based on much of what I've read this phony signature is quite common. I am prepared to file a lawsuit with Fedex. I think they are WELL AWARE of this type of practice where the driver signs and just drops a package. I only wish we had closed circuit cameras in the lobby OR outside to see if this was the case.

The signature, to me, appears self-evidently fake. Fanatics may have some leverage also, it's a huge business beyond the auction site. I am optimistic you will work this out without having to file a lawsuit, which is rarely the best solution for any small (in context, not being denigrating here) dispute.

[ALR-bishop]

Everytime I have been asked to sign for a package, usually electronically, whether I use my finger or an object or a pen, no one, incuding me, would recognize the signature. Any mark or scratching seems to suffice. Others may be more careful or precise or encounter delivery people who are more particular.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Everytime I have been asked to sign for a package, usually electronically, whether I use my finger or an object or a pen, no one, incuding me, would recognize the signature. Any mark or scratching seems to suffice. Others may be more careful or precise or encounter delivery people who are more particular.

Kind of like modern autograph cards, eh?

[philo98]

This is the main reason I carry collectibles insurance. For fire and theft is almost secondary, but my policy also covers shipments that are lost or never show up.

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by philo98

This is the main reason I carry collectibles insurance. For fire and theft is almost secondary, but my policy also covers shipments that are lost or never show up.

But are you sure your insurer would agree that this shipment didn’t show up?

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by icollectDCsports

But are you sure your insurer would agree that this shipment didn’t show up?

Exactly. If the package is marked as delivered and signed by someone, then good luck getting your money back from your insurer.

[philo98]

Originally Posted by icollectDCsports

But are you sure your insurer would agree that this shipment didn’t show up?

Yes they already reimbursed for a “lost” package. I just showed documentation that I have no idea who the person was that signed it and FedEx couldn’t show or proof the name of the person. Also I showed I’m the only person who resides at my residence. As a lot of people on this board, I have CIS. Have had great experience with them overall.

[Vintagedeputy]

Fed Ex package sorting looks to be fairly efficient. I can’t imagine what could ever go wrong!

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Everytime I have been asked to sign for a package, usually electronically, whether I use my finger or an object or a pen, no one, incuding me, would recognize the signature. Any mark or scratching seems to suffice. Others may be more careful or precise or encounter delivery people who are more particular.

The OP said that he has signed for many other packages in the past from FedEx and others. I would think it would be possible to compare some of those signatures with the one for this delivery.

[Peter_Spaeth]

8.4. Risk of loss and title for any Archived Item fulfilled or shipped through Fanatics Collect passes to the recipient upon proof of delivery to the recipient's fulfillment address. You are solely responsible for the accuracy of the fulfillment address included in any Release Order. Fanatics Collect is responsible for filing any claims with carriers if Archived Item is lost or damaged in transit. You are responsible for filing any claims with carriers for damaged or lost shipments at any point following proof of delivery to the fulfillment address included in a Release Order. The purchaser of an Archived Item through Marketplace is responsible for filing any claims with carriers for damaged or lost shipments at any point following proof of delivery to the fulfillment address provided to Marketplace at the time of purchase.

So at least technically, the issue is whether that squiggle is proof of delivery. I would argue NFW, and Russ' statement will fully support that. And I doubt Fed Ex can come up with a GPS or anything. But I still think this is probably resolvable between Fanatics and Fed Ex.

[nolemmings]

Interesting. Seems helpful to the OP, as it is in the nature of a destination contract.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

8.4. Risk of loss and title for any Archived Item fulfilled or shipped through Fanatics Collect passes to the recipient upon proof of delivery to the recipient's fulfillment address. You are solely responsible for the accuracy of the fulfillment address included in any Release Order. Fanatics Collect is responsible for filing any claims with carriers if Archived Item is lost or damaged in transit. You are responsible for filing any claims with carriers for damaged or lost shipments at any point following proof of delivery to the fulfillment address included in a Release Order. The purchaser of an Archived Item through Marketplace is responsible for filing any claims with carriers for damaged or lost shipments at any point following proof of delivery to the fulfillment address provided to Marketplace at the time of purchase.

So at least technically, the issue is whether that squiggle is proof of delivery. I would argue NFW, and Russ' statement will fully support that. And I doubt Fed Ex can come up with a GPS or anything. But I still think this is probably resolvable between Fanatics and Fed Ex.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Interesting. Seems helpful to the OP, as it is in the nature of a destination contract.

Correct, assuming he can establish the "proof of delivery" is fake. Fanatics is not going to fight this IMO. It may take some time and posturing but they will work it out with Russ, or they and Fed Ex will jointly work it out.

[Kawika]

Came home a few weeks ago and saw these packages at the door. The larger box contained a Kreindler painting. Signature was to have been required but they let that slide. Good thing it wasn't a rainy day and a good thing the porch pirates were elsewhere. Not that it really mattered but it was upside-down for good measure. Gotta love FedEx.

[Peter_Spaeth]

At least they followed the instruction not to lay it flat.

[Brick442]

I avoid FedEx like the plague. I live in a large town that has a community page on Facebook. A while back there were many discussions about the theory that FedEx drivers in our area ran out of time at the end of the day, marked all undelivered packages in their trucks as delivered, and delivered those packages next day. This caused a lot of confusion and anxiety as customers believed their packages were missing. I believe the drivers did this to hit their metrics. There were many, many documented instances of this on our page.

FedEx apparently caught on because drivers stopped doing this for whatever reason. However, some drivers appear to have found a new method to help their metrics: If they had two deliveries on the same street or nearby, and say it was busy (holiday season, etc), they would seem to deliver both packages to one address and let neighbors 'sort it out' hoping they wouldn't have the time to contact customer service. This has happened to me twice and many times to others on our page as well.

I understand the drivers are under the crunch, as the metrics are becoming unreasonable, but it seems that the customer is suffering. I had a $2000 signed Jordan Baseball left at my neighbors house, thankfully he brought it over.

[russkcpa]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Came home a few weeks ago and saw these packages at the door. The larger box contained a Kreindler painting. Signature was to have been required but they let that slide. Good thing it wasn't a rainy day and a good thing the porch pirates were elsewhere. Not that it really mattered but it was upside-down for good measure. Gotta love FedEx.

You should go onto the proof of delivery page. At the bottom there SHOULD BE the recipients signature. I wonder what it looks like.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And I doubt Fed Ex can come up with a GPS or anything.

I'm not so sure of that. Now, if FedEx is willing to provide that information is a different matter entirely.

While the situation I'm about to relay was with UPS, I have to imagine that FedEx would be using the same technology:

A couple of years ago, my UPS shipment was misdirected per tracking. I called UPS. Completely unprompted, the lady I spoke with gave me the exact current GPS coordinates. I plugged them into Google. It was the loneliest stretch of Texas back country imaginable. It was on a moving truck at the time. So they have to have the coordinates for exactly where it was actually delivered.

[russkcpa]

Thank you everyone for your advice and your stories about Fedex and the lack of compliance with "signature confirmation". I was SO unaware at how common place this practice seems to be. Just to reiterate the facts:

This package was sent with signature confirmation.

My entire office suite number is included on the bill of lading from Fanatics

I was never visited by the driver even after Fedex dispatched him/her back to the destination.

I will file a police report ASAP.

I am so pissed off by this entire experience but will work in a civil manor with my personal rep Chris Peerboom at Fanatics to find a resolution. I am going to pressure Fanatics about the signature used by the Fedex driver and about remedies without legal action.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

Thank you everyone for your advice and your stories about Fedex and the lack of compliance with "signature confirmation". I was SO unaware at how common place this practice seems to be. Just to reiterate the facts:

This package was sent with signature confirmation.

My entire office suite number is included on the bill of lading from Fanatics

I was never visited by the driver even after Fedex dispatched him/her back to the destination.

I will file a police report ASAP.

I am so pissed off by this entire experience but will work in a civil manor with my personal rep Chris Peerboom at Fanatics to find a resolution. I am going to pressure Fanatics about the signature used by the Fedex driver and about remedies without legal action.

The resolution should be that after a reasonable time when the card does not turn up and there is nothing further to be done to locate it, Fanatics refunds you and it's then their problem to deal with Fed Ex or their insurer. But it may take some time if your rep has to go up the chain which he may need to do given the size of the transaction. If you feel he's not being sufficiently responsive, there's a guy at Fanatics I dealt with who was fantastic on a (smaller and not controversial) issue I had, would give you his name. Best of luck.

[russkcpa]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The resolution should be that after a reasonable time when the card does not turn up and there is nothing further to be done to locate it, Fanatics refunds you and it's then their problem to deal with Fed Ex or their insurer. But it may take some time if your rep has to go up the chain which he may need to do given the size of the transaction. If you feel he's not being sufficiently responsive, there's a guy at Fanatics I dealt with who was fantastic on a (smaller and not controversial) issue I had, would give you his name. Best of luck.

Thanks for the offer Peter. I'll let you know if I hit a roadblock with Chris at Fanatics.