Cutting cards from an uncut sheet????

[todeen]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I will go the other way. I have cut up a LOT of sheets over the years. I used a professional matting cutter that cut every card to the exact size. I never had anything graded and when I sold the cards I told everyone I cut them from a sheet. I mainly cut up junk era error sheets but would have no problem cutting up pretty much any sheet with very fer exceptions.

I don't know how I feel about any of the cutting or cleaning. Do cut sheets bother me? No, unless someone absolutely butchers it. Does minimal card cleaning bother me? No. Wax removal, glue removal, removal from albums, soaking.... none of those bother me. Using chemicals? Somehow that bothers me.

One of my Griffey Desert Shields has a wax stain. Someone told me he had PSA 6 with wax stain; he cracked his, rubbed it with pantihose, and resubmitted. It returned as a PSA 8. Would I like a PSA 8? Yes. Would I consider it cheating if I cleaned it with pantihose? No.

I think my personal feelings are kind of based on art and art restoration and cleaning. Those paintings don't lose value with cleaning. No one who visits the Sistine Chapel will complain that the ceiling colors are altered because it's been cleaned. No one complains about SF's Telegraph Hill, Coit Tower murals, that they've been cleaned and restored due to salt water damage.

Obviously, the outside big money that has moved into our collecting hobby has brought these ideas of acceptance with them. If a buyer doesn't care, is it still immoral?

And a lack of any collecting governing body, to say what is acceptable and what is unacceptable, has also created this problem. A lawyer who takes Snowman to court for cleaning cards, and brings prosecutions' witnesses that restoration isn't acceptable, would also meet a line of defendants witnesses who are cleaners and buyers who don't care about cleaning and restoration. I'm thinking it would end in a hung jury.

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[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by todeen

I don't know how I feel about any of the cutting or cleaning. Do cut sheets bother me? No, unless someone absolutely butchers it. Does minimal card cleaning bother me? No. Wax removal, glue removal, removal from albums, soaking.... none of those bother me. Using chemicals? Somehow that bothers me.

One of my Griffey Desert Shields has a wax stain. Someone told me he had PSA 6 with wax stain; he cracked his, rubbed it with pantihose, and resubmitted. It returned as a PSA 8. Would I like a PSA 8? Yes. Would I consider it cheating if I cleaned it with pantihose? No.

I think my personal feelings are kind of based on art and art restoration and cleaning. Those paintings don't lose value with cleaning. No one who visits the Sistine Chapel will complain that the ceiling colors are altered because it's been cleaned. No one complains about SF's Telegraph Hill, Coit Tower murals, that they've been cleaned and restored due to salt water damage.

Obviously, the outside big money that has moved into our collecting hobby has brought these ideas of acceptance with them. If a buyer doesn't care, is it still immoral?

And a lack of any collecting governing body, to say what is acceptable and what is unacceptable, has also created this problem. A lawyer who takes Snowman to court for cleaning cards, and brings prosecutions' witnesses that restoration isn't acceptable, would also meet a line of defendants witnesses who are cleaners and buyers who don't care about cleaning and restoration. I'm thinking it would end in a hung jury.

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Then there's no reason to conceal it. It's not the act of alteration that is fraudulent, but the concealing with intent to defraud a potential buyer into paying more than it would be worth if disclosed.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Then there's no reason to conceal it. It's not the act of alteration that is fraudulent, but the concealing with intent to defraud a potential buyer into paying more than it would be worth if disclosed.

yeah, I can see that. thanks.

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[Snowman]

Originally Posted by todeen

One of my Griffey Desert Shields has a wax stain. Someone told me he had PSA 6 with wax stain; he cracked his, rubbed it with pantihose, and resubmitted. It returned as a PSA 8. Would I like a PSA 8? Yes. Would I consider it cheating if I cleaned it with pantihose? No.

Blasphemy! Put this man behind bars!!!

Originally Posted by todeen

And a lack of any collecting governing body, to say what is acceptable and what is unacceptable, has also created this problem. A lawyer who takes Snowman to court for cleaning cards, and brings prosecutions' witnesses that restoration isn't acceptable, would also meet a line of defendants witnesses who are cleaners and buyers who don't care about cleaning and restoration. I'm thinking it would end in a hung jury.

MADNESS! Madness, I tell you! Have you not seen? A guy with the word "Lawyer" in his screen name has spoken! And he says otherwise!