Cutting cards from an uncut sheet????

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snowman

What else would you expect from a guy who includes 'Lawyer' as part of his screen name on a baseball card forum?

Similar to what I would expect from a mathematician who calls himself snowman. Am I safe in assuming you tip the scales around 5 bills?

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Similar to what I would expect from a mathematician who calls himself snowman.

Personally I'm a fan of both mathematicians and snowmen.



But undisclosed card altering? Not at all.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Personally I'm a fan of both mathematicians and snowmen.



But undisclosed card altering? Not at all.

I don't alter cards.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I don't alter cards.

When paper fibers are wet and subsequently dry, they are forever changed on a fundamental level. You may not see it with your naked eye, but the card is altered by definition. There is no argument otherwise.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1557/PROC-267-429

alter verb (CHANGE)

to change something, usually slightly, or to cause the characteristics of something to change:

Therefore, a change in the fiber structure of the paper literally alters it.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

When paper fibers are wet and subsequently dry, they are forever changed on a fundamental level. You may not see it with your naked eye, but the card is altered by definition. There is no argument otherwise.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1557/PROC-267-429

alter verb (CHANGE)

to change something, usually slightly, or to cause the characteristics of something to change:

Therefore, a change in the fiber structure of the paper literally alters it.

In other past threads he has redefined words from their actual meaning, so that an 'altered' card is a card with a crease or something, damage after creation, and thus by removing the damage he is not 'altering' a card. Thus none of his doctoring is 'altering'.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

When paper fibers are wet and subsequently dry, they are forever changed on a fundamental level. You may not see it with your naked eye, but the card is altered by definition. There is no argument otherwise.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1557/PROC-267-429

alter verb (CHANGE)

to change something, usually slightly, or to cause the characteristics of something to change:

Therefore, a change in the fiber structure of the paper literally alters it.

Complete and utter nonsense. Do you even know how paper gets made you dumb f*?

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Complete and utter nonsense. Do you even know how paper gets made you dumb f*?

LOL yes, the scholarly article is wrong and every scientist who studies cellulose fibers as well, but a scamming mathematician knows it all. :rollseyes:

The fact that water is used in the process to create paper and setup the structure of the fibers, doesn't prove using water isn't alteration. In fact, it proves the major effect water has on them in breaking down the bonds.

You truly are incredible. You are either really dumb, or seriously grasping at straws to defend your shady practices. Just take a hike you scamming piece of garbage. I'm done with you. If the best you can do in response to scientific proof of alteration is "that peer reviewed study is nonsense," then rational discussion with you is useless. Welcome to the first spot on my ignore list.

[drcy]

The answer and reasoning are simple. The below are thee different wordings of the same idea:

** If stating the fact that a card was cut from a sheet at a later date alters the market value, you have to state that it was cut from a sheet at a later date.

** The only reason why someone would omit the fact is because they feel it would lower the market value: Which is exactly why you have to state it.

** If one sincerely believes and asserts that stating the card was cut later from a sheet does not affect its identity and market value, then why would one try to find a justification for not stating that it was cut later from a sheet?

In short, there is no honest justification for knowingly not stating at sale that a card was cut later from a sheet.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Complete and utter nonsense. Do you even know how paper gets made you dumb f*?

I do, grew up in a paper town, have been in operating paper plants, and have another hobby where studying the paper something was printed on can make a huge difference in value.

The posted article was behind a paywall, requiring either a login from an institution, or paying 39.95 for it.

The introduction, which I could read was good.

Not all of the cardstock we deal with in prewar is cellulose, T206s have very little wood fiber.
Most papers used also have stuff to help the fibers adhere to each other outside of the bonds from that article. And coatings to make the printing better or easier.

All that can be affected by water, although the effect may not be a huge immediate problem. Long term, I'm less certain. Conservators of posters and other things do wet them to help them unfold and lay flat without damage. It's entirely possible they're trading very likely immediate damage for potential lower level damage in the future.

[rats60]

In 1987 Topps sold uncut sheets to a dealer with the knowledge that the dealer was cutting them up into singles. The reason was because Topps quality control was garbage. The hobby was asking for better condition cards and the dealer delivered to his customers. Are these cards now altered?

PSA graded sheet cut cards for more than a decade. They have graded 5,111 1984 Topps Nestle cards. Only 13 have been given an authentic grade despite the fact that these were only sold as uncut sheets.

The PSA 8 t206 Honus Wagner is just another sheet cut card, cut poorly and recut by Mastro. It was known in the hobby prior to the Southerby's Auction the card was sheet cut. Which card is worth more? A poorly cut Wagner in a PSA A holder or a peferctly cut Wagner in a PSA A holder? We all know that Mastro cutting the Wagner made it more valuable regardless of whether it received a number grade or not.