Two hour interview with.... Bill Mastro

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

People can think what they want, but I'm a prosecutor. And make no mistake, trimming a card to deceive a buyer into paying more for it will be charged as theft by decpetion every time in my jurisdiction as well criminal simulation. And if you do it as a business model, I will charge with engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity as well (which is a high-level felony in Ohio).

Look up criminal simulation in Ohio. It is RC 2913.32. It describes precisely what trimming a card to deceive is.

While I agree that it is immoral, it can't possibly be theft if the victim isn't out any money. That Wagner isn't worth one penny less as a result of it having been trimmed. The same is true of the controversial Wemby Black Prizm 1/1 that was polished by Kurt's Card Care. It's not worth a single penny less today. These cards can and will be transacted at full market value into perpetuity. There is no victim.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

While I agree that it is immoral, it can't possibly be theft if the victim isn't out any money. That Wagner isn't worth one penny less as a result of it having been trimmed. The same is true of the controversial Wemby Black Prizm 1/1 that was polished by Kurt's Card Care. It's not worth a single penny less today. These cards can and will be transacted at full market value into perpetuity. There is no victim.

How about your garden variety card, let's just arbitrarily say a 1956 Mantle PSA 6. Let's say I have two very similar examples. Both are trimmed, but it isn't obvious to most. I sell one with no disclosure. I sell the other in the same venue, but disclose prominently that I lightly trimmed it. Same price?

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snowman

While I agree that it is immoral, it can't possibly be theft if the victim isn't out any money. That Wagner isn't worth one penny less as a result of it having been trimmed. The same is true of the controversial Wemby Black Prizm 1/1 that was polished by Kurt's Card Care. It's not worth a single penny less today. These cards can and will be transacted at full market value into perpetuity. There is no victim.

Did you look up criminal simulation? The crime is for altering an item with intent to defraud. Actual value isn't an element, just that you committed the act to try to raise the price.

But hey, I've only been a prosecutor for 16 years. You clearly know more about the elements of criminal offenses than me. Nothing I say will convince you. And frankly, nothing a jury says would convince you. You would sit behind bars arguing the jury doesn't know what they're talking about.

[calvindog]

I’ve been a criminal trial lawyer for 34 years, tried 50 cases to verdict, but the guy with Asperger’s knows more about what a criminal jury will do than me.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I’ve been a criminal trial lawyer for 34 years, tried 50 cases to verdict, but the guy with Asperger’s knows more about what a criminal jury will do than me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCWCSgBgJ0E

[Snowman]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited to watch all these fraudsters who are removing wax stains off the backs of their 1986 Fleer Basketball stickers spend some time behind bars for criminal simulation! And all these fraudsters soaking T206s to remove them from scrapbooks!

LOCK THEM UP!!! LOCK THEM UP!!!

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited to watch all these fraudsters who are removing wax stains off the backs of their 1986 Fleer Basketball stickers spend some time behind bars for criminal simulation! And all these fraudsters soaking T206s to remove them from scrapbooks!



LOCK THEM UP!!! LOCK THEM UP!!!

Logical fallacy. The lack of prosecution is not acquiescence to the legality of the act. Come do it in my county. Do you feel lucky?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Logical fallacy. The lack of prosecution is not acquiescence to the legality of the act. Come do it in my county. Do you feel lucky?

I would wager every penny I have and will ever earn that you could not get a jury to convict me, or anyone else for that matter, for cleaning a baseball card and selling it without disclosure. I think I could represent myself and clean the damn cards on the witness stand and sell them right in front of the jury on ebay in real time too. And I think you're a delusional nutjob if you believe otherwise.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Did you look up criminal simulation? The crime is for altering an item with intent to defraud. Actual value isn't an element, just that you committed the act to try to raise the price.

But hey, I've only been a prosecutor for 16 years. You clearly know more about the elements of criminal offenses than me. Nothing I say will convince you. And frankly, nothing a jury says would convince you. You would sit behind bars arguing the jury doesn't know what they're talking about.

When the FBI jumped into the PWCC and related offenders' investigation the cards in question were worth more at the time of the investigation than buyers would have paid for those cards yet they poured time and resources into the investigation for years.

Using Snowman's reasoning they must have dropped the matter once they realized, years later, that there were no victims because the cards were worth more than people paid for them.