Two hour interview with.... Bill Mastro

OhioLawyerF5 · #1 10-20-2024, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited to watch all these fraudsters who are removing wax stains off the backs of their 1986 Fleer Basketball stickers spend some time behind bars for criminal simulation! And all these fraudsters soaking T206s to remove them from scrapbooks!

LOCK THEM UP!!! LOCK THEM UP!!!

Logical fallacy. The lack of prosecution is not acquiescence to the legality of the act. Come do it in my county. Do you feel lucky?

Snowman · #2 10-20-2024, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Logical fallacy. The lack of prosecution is not acquiescence to the legality of the act. Come do it in my county. Do you feel lucky?

I would wager every penny I have and will ever earn that you could not get a jury to convict me, or anyone else for that matter, for cleaning a baseball card and selling it without disclosure. I think I could represent myself and clean the damn cards on the witness stand and sell them right in front of the jury on ebay in real time too. And I think you're a delusional nutjob if you believe otherwise.

OhioLawyerF5 · #3 10-20-2024, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

I would wager every penny I have and will ever earn that you could not get a jury to convict me, or anyone else for that matter, for cleaning a baseball card and selling it without disclosure. I think I could represent myself and clean the damn cards on the witness stand and sell them right in front of the jury on ebay in real time too. And I think you're a delusional nutjob if you believe otherwise.

Think what you want, smart guy. You are clearly smarter than everyone else. Consequently, my experience is people with your arrogance are the easiest to convict. Your arrogance gets in the way of your objectivity and you walk right into every trap I lay at trial.

I do find it funny how it went from "no lawyer would say it's illegal." Then 2 lawyers show up and refute your claim. Then it changed to "well nobody gets charged, so it must be legal." And now it's "but you can't convince a jury to convict." LOL As if you have the slightest clue what a jury will do.

Like I said, put your freedom where your mouth is. Come do it in my county if you're so confident. The mere fact that you clean it and don't disclose it is proof in and of itself that not only does it make it worth more (else you wouldn't do it), but that you have an intent to defraud (else you would disclose). Good luck with your defense.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 10-20-2024, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Think what you want, smart guy. You are clearly smarter than everyone else. Consequently, my experience is people with your arrogance are the easiest to convict. Your arrogance gets in the way of your objectivity and you walk right into every trap I lay at trial.

I do find it funny how it went from "no lawyer would say it's illegal." Then 2 lawyers show up and refute your claim. Then it changed to "well nobody gets charged, so it must be legal." And now it's "but you can't convince a jury to convict." LOL As if you have the slightest clue what a jury will do.

Like I said, put your freedom where your mouth is. Come do it in my county if you're so confident. The mere fact that you clean it and don't disclose it is proof in and of itself that not only does it make it worth more (else you wouldn't do it), but that you have an intent to defraud (else you would disclose). Good luck with your defense.

Yes, just call him Mr. Goalposts. LOL. When confronted before as to why he doesn't disclose, his answer is always, there's nothing to disclose. Taking a step back, though, there does seem to be a different generational attitude about cleaning, at least if it isn't bleach etc. I don't think it's accepted as a consensus by any means yet, but it's not on the same tier as trimming or recoloring.

OhioLawyerF5 · #5 10-20-2024, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When confronted before as to why he doesn't disclose, his answer is always, there's nothing to disclose.

Yeah, that's the kind of argument juries are persuaded by. :rollseyes:

I guess all the juries he's argued in front of are just different from the ones I have experience with. :cry:

Peter_Spaeth · #6 10-20-2024, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Yeah, that's the kind of argument juries are persuaded by. :rollseyes:

I guess all the juries he's argued in front of are just different from the ones I have experience with. :cry:

I think he claimed to have taken some sort of informal survey but I may not be recalling correctly. I'm sure the questions were framed very neutrally lol. Hey Travis, how about my 56 Mantle question?

OhioLawyerF5 · #7 10-20-2024, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think he claimed to have taken some sort of informal survey but I may not be recalling correctly. I'm sure the questions were framed very neutrally lol. Hey Travis, how about my 56 Mantle question?

That would go over well at trial as I parade so many sportscards experts and collectors to the stand that the judge has to cut it off. Juries find it very powerful when a judge has to say, "Ok, we get it, no need for more testimony."

Snowman · #8 10-20-2024, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Yeah, that's the kind of argument juries are persuaded by. :rollseyes:

I guess all the juries he's argued in front of are just different from the ones I have experience with. :cry:

The idea that because you're a lawyer you are more in tune to how the general public sees things is remarkably ignorant.

The fact of the matter is that normal people do not see cleaning a thing and later reselling the thing as fraudulent behavior. You can scream fraud all day long from the rooftops, but nobody is going to listen to you because it's utter nonsense. If you think your viewpoint is closer to public opinion on this topic than mine, you're completely delusional.

Now if we're talking about trimming or rebuilding corners, or recoloring a card or something else where you are in fact changing something about the card itself, as opposed to simply cleaning it or removing something from it, then that's a different discussion. But when it comes to merely cleaning a card, you're an idiot if you think that requires disclosure.

Peter_Spaeth · #9 10-20-2024, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

The idea that because you're a lawyer you are more in tune to how the general public sees things is remarkably ignorant.

The fact of the matter is that normal people do not see cleaning a thing and later reselling the thing as fraudulent behavior. You can scream fraud all day long from the rooftops, but nobody is going to listen to you because it's utter nonsense. If you think your viewpoint is closer to public opinion on this topic than mine, you're completely delusional.

Now if we're talking about trimming or rebuilding corners, or recoloring a card or something else where you are in fact changing something about the card itself, as opposed to simply cleaning it or removing something from it, then that's a different discussion. But when it comes to merely cleaning a card, you're an idiot if you think that requires disclosure.

Have you not said before that no jury would ever convict someone of concealing trimming? Wasn't that your explanation for why the FBI dropped the investigation? Help me out, I'm too tired to go back and reread stuff.

OhioLawyerF5 · #10 10-20-2024, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

The idea that because you're a lawyer you are more in tune to how the general public sees things is remarkably ignorant.

The fact of the matter is that normal people do not see cleaning a thing and later reselling the thing as fraudulent behavior. You can scream fraud all day long from the rooftops, but nobody is going to listen to you because it's utter nonsense. If you think your viewpoint is closer to public opinion on this topic than mine, you're completely delusional.

Now if we're talking about trimming or rebuilding corners, or recoloring a card or something else where you are in fact changing something about the card itself, as opposed to simply cleaning it or removing something from it, then that's a different discussion. But when it comes to merely cleaning a card, you're an idiot if you think that requires disclosure.

It's interesting how when I began this discussion with you, trimming was exactly the topic at hand. I love how you've completely abandoned that one. Careful, those pedals aren't designed to go backward.

Furthermore, I never said that being a lawyer makes me more in tune with what the general public thinks. That's a strawman. I said my experience trying cases like this to a jury makes me better at predicting what juries will do. And you're ignorant if you think otherwise. Cases aren't won based on what a jury thinks coming into a case. In fact, we weed those people out in voir dire. Juries aren't "the general public." They are a captive audience, chosen for their objectivity and willingness to hear evidence and apply the law the judge instructs them with, and educated by me over the course of a trial. If your skills in logic and argument here are any indication, you'd convict yourself.

Lorewalker · #11 10-20-2024, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Now if we're talking about trimming or rebuilding corners, or recoloring a card or something else where you are in fact changing something about the card itself, as opposed to simply cleaning it or removing something from it, then that's a different discussion. But when it comes to merely cleaning a card, you're an idiot if you think that requires disclosure.

Cleaning bird poop off of a car is expected. Cleaning stuff off a sports card is not, despite the fact that many do it and many accept it. PSA just updated their terms taking a stance in writing on cleaning, which is likely a CYA.

Anyway, if cleaning is no big deal why have none of your graded card listings mentioned it? Do you never sell cleaned cards but only clean those you retain in your collection?

Peter_Spaeth · #12 10-20-2024, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

I would wager every penny I have and will ever earn that you could not get a jury to convict me, or anyone else for that matter, for cleaning a baseball card and selling it without disclosure. I think I could represent myself and clean the damn cards on the witness stand and sell them right in front of the jury on ebay in real time too. And I think you're a delusional nutjob if you believe otherwise.

So now you're wagering money in addition to body parts? LOL. Hysterical. You may end up broke and impotent.

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