Buying a Raw 1959 Topps Mickey Mantle, SGC "NO", & Dealer Responsibility

[Smanzari]

I'm so confused by the response here, I understand if OP purchased it expecting a "5" and got a "2," but this feels like they bought an altered card thinking it was unaltered. Makes me a little uneasy as I frequently buy raw cards in the BST Here. FWIW, I am a dealer and without question would offer a return/refund in this situation.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Smanzari

I'm so confused by the response here, I understand if OP purchased it expecting a "5" and got a "2," but this feels like they bought an altered card thinking it was unaltered. Makes me a little uneasy as I frequently buy raw cards in the BST Here. FWIW, I am a dealer and without question would offer a return/refund in this situation.

Nice, can you post a link to your eBay page or any other online place you sell cards?

[Smanzari]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Nice, can you post a link to your eBay page or any other online place you sell cards?

Smvintage13.com

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

And how is the seller supposed to know that the card in question wasn't altered after it left his possession, or is even the same card? We guarantee everything we sell to get a number grade (unless stated otherwise in the listing) but to take advantage of the guarantee it has to be submitted by us. Once it leaves our possession (to the buyer) it's bought.

[notfast]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

And how is the seller supposed to know that the card in question wasn't altered after it left his possession, or is even the same card?

This. And it is very important.

Buyer had chance to inspect card in person before purchasing. I’m sure many of us have been in this exact situation multiple times and you chalk it up to a learning experience.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by notfast

This. And it is very important.

Buyer had chance to inspect card in person before purchasing. I’m sure many of us have been in this exact situation multiple times and you chalk it up to a learning experience.

So, your scenario is a collector drops $700 on a raw '59 Mantle, and is hopeful that the card will grade a 5. The collector then alters the card before submitting to a TPG for grading. Uh, no. Collectors can be an odd bunch but not that farking odd.

Now, could the collector have submitted a different '59 Mantle for grading then the card purchased? Yes. I agree that it would be hard for the dealer to ascertain if the card was the same as the one previously sold. So, in this scenario, the collector has a '59 Mantle at home. Attends a show with the premediated intention of finding a '59 Mantle that will grade a 5 and drops $700 on a card in better condition then the card at home. Leaves the show, submits the card at home which is graded NO. At the next show brings the NO card in from home in hopes that the dealer will refund the $700. I am having a hard time boarding that crazy train.

There are bad apples in every group, but overall the collectors I have dealt with over the last 40 plus years have all been solid honest people. Mintacular (aka Minty) stated that the card was purchased at a local show. Perhaps, Minty has purchased cards from this dealer on a regular basis. Perhaps the dealer sees Minty as a walking ATM machine and looks forward to seeing Minty at the show. I don't get the feeling that the dealer stated "if that card doesn't grade a 5, I will refund your money". There was nothing implied. So, Minty is likely sol. That said, if the dealer appreciates Minty's business and knows Minty is a good customer, as I stated before perhaps something could be worked out but apparently not from two of the dealers who chimed in here.................

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Huck

So, your scenario is a collector drops $700 on a raw '59 Mantle, and is hopeful that the card will grade a 5. The collector then alters the card before submitting to a TPG for grading. Uh, no. Collectors can be an odd bunch but not that farking odd.

Now, could the collector have submitted a different '59 Mantle for grading then the card purchased? Yes. I agree that it would be hard for the dealer to ascertain if the card was the same as the one previously sold. So, in this scenario, the collector has a '59 Mantle at home. Attends a show with the premediated intention of finding a '59 Mantle that will grade a 5 and drops $700 on a card in better condition then the card at home. Leaves the show, submits the card at home which is graded NO. At the next show brings the NO card in from home in hopes that the dealer will refund the $700. I am having a hard time boarding that crazy train.

There are bad apples in every group, but overall the collectors I have dealt with over the last 40 plus years have all been solid honest people. Mintacular (aka Minty) stated that the card was purchased at a local show. Perhaps, Minty has purchased cards from this dealer on a regular basis. Perhaps the dealer sees Minty as a walking ATM machine and looks forward to seeing Minty at the show. I don't get the feeling that the dealer stated "if that card doesn't grade a 5, I will refund your money". There was nothing implied. So, Minty is likely sol. That said, if the dealer appreciates Minty's business and knows Minty is a good customer, as I stated before perhaps something could be worked out but apparently not from two of the dealers who chimed in here.................

I'm glad that as a seller you've never been scammed, lots of us have.

We back up everything we sell to the hilt, but if you want to take advantage of the guarantee we have to submit the card for you. We're not trying to screw over buyers, we're trying to protect ourselves.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Smanzari

I'm so confused by the response here, I understand if OP purchased it expecting a "5" and got a "2," but this feels like they bought an altered card thinking it was unaltered. Makes me a little uneasy as I frequently buy raw cards in the BST Here. FWIW, I am a dealer and without question would offer a return/refund in this situation.

Very admirable. Wish there were more like you, and will check out your site for sure.