Buying a Raw 1959 Topps Mickey Mantle, SGC "NO", & Dealer Responsibility

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Cozumeleno

If the dealer thought it was really a 6, you can bet they would have spent the $15-$20 to grade it.

That is absolutely not true.

Many of us old school guys would not spend anything to grade any of our cards to sell.

If I have a card that you think might be a 6 (I don't think it's a 6, I think it's a nice looking card that I will sell to you for $x) then after we shake hands and make the exchange, you're on you're own.

I fully 100% agree with Adam, you saw it, held it, felt it, smelled it, whatever, you agreed to a price, and if some schmuck who sells opinions tells you "it's a 2" then it's evidently a 2 and I will offer you congrats on your 2, but you want a refund?

F you.

Doug "middle name is Richard" Goodman

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

That is absolutely not true.

Many of us old school guys would not spend anything to grade any of our cards to sell.

If I have a card that you think might be a 6 (I don't think it's a 6, I think it's a nice looking card that I will sell to you for $x) then after we shake hands and make the exchange, you're on you're own.

I fully 100% agree with Adam, you saw it, held it, felt it, smelled it, whatever, you agreed to a price, and if some schmuck who sells opinions tells you "it's a 2" then it's evidently a 2 and I will offer you congrats on your 2, but you want a refund?

F you.

Doug "middle name is Richard" Goodman

I like your style...

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

If I have a card that you think might be a 6 (I don't think it's a 6, I think it's a nice looking card that I will sell to you for $x) then after we shake hands and make the exchange, you're on you're own.

How did you arrive at the $x you will sell it for? Was it based on the prices of graded cards?

[ZenPop]

I don’t think you all are considering that “NO” actually means:
“No problem. I think it WILL grade at a 6, but maybe even a 7. Good job!”

I’m just saying...

[ZenPop]

I’d like to apologize for the previous post.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by ZenPop

I’d like to apologize for the previous post.

It was a valiant attempt at a joke. I like where your head is at!

[Huck]

This is for the sellers/dealers on the board. If you knew, had a feeling, an inkling that the card was trimmed/modified in some fashion, would you reveal that information and price the card accordingly or just ignore the hunch and caveat emptor?

The argument that a dealer can't/doesn't look at every card borders on complete and utter kaka because before a dealer purchases a collection of cards and money exchanges hands the '59 Mantle is going to have a lookie-look. Based on a scan alone Exhibitman stated "clearly trimmed, top left, not a particularly deft job of it."

I agree that if you wanted a 5, you should have purchased a graded card. Best case, would be the dealer issues a credit and you purchase a card of higher value. Preferably, graded.....

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Huck

This is for the sellers/dealers on the board. If you knew, had a feeling, an inkling that the card was trimmed/modified in some fashion, would you reveal that information and price the card accordingly or just ignore the hunch and caveat emptor?

The argument that a dealer can't/doesn't look at every card borders on complete and utter kaka because before a dealer purchases a collection of cards and money exchanges hands the '59 Mantle is going to have a lookie-look. Based on a scan alone Exhibitman stated "clearly trimmed, top left, not a particularly deft job of it."

I agree that if you wanted a 5, you should have purchased a graded a card. Best case, would be the dealer issues a credit and you purchase a card of higher value. Preferably, graded.....

TBH: If I knew or had a good inkling the card was trimmed, I would sell it at about 10 percent of value as a card which had a major damage.

Here is one for you thought. I believe at one time PSA only graded the 48 Slate Bowman Basketball and the 49 Slate Bowman Baseball as AUthentic

Sold one many years to a friend of mine who got it graded and he was annoyed that it came back that way. Years later, I told him (and he told me his others were now all A as well) that as far as know the slate are mostly authentic. That's the flip side of this issue in my opinion

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Huck

This is for the sellers/dealers on the board. If you knew, had a feeling, an inkling that the card was trimmed/modified in some fashion, would you reveal that information and price the card accordingly or just ignore the hunch and caveat emptor?

The argument that a dealer can't/doesn't look at every card borders on complete and utter kaka because before a dealer purchases a collection of cards and money exchanges hands the '59 Mantle is going to have a lookie-look. Based on a scan alone Exhibitman stated "clearly trimmed, top left, not a particularly deft job of it."

I agree that if you wanted a 5, you should have purchased a graded card. Best case, would be the dealer issues a credit and you purchase a card of higher value. Preferably, graded.....

I am far from a dealer but have sold several cards on here over the last 10 or so years. Saying that I have clearly pointed out any alterations on every card I have sold on here or other places. I would hope everyone does but it isn't always the case.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

How did you arrive at the $x you will sell it for? Was it based on the prices of graded cards?

Maybe I think it looked of similar quality to what those of you who like to buy opinions would call a 6.

If that's the case, then it seems that I had a similar opinion of the card to that of the buyer.

Too bad a seller of opinions sold the buyer a different opinion.

But that has nothing to do with me.

[glchen]

My concerns here is that I remember a seller on ebay a few years back where basically he made his business to crack out nice looking Authentic cards and then sell them raw on ebay. I hope that in this case the dealer did not do the same thing and crack out a card that he knew was altered.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by glchen

My concerns here is that I remember a seller on ebay a few years back where basically he made his business to crack out nice looking Authentic cards and then sell them raw on ebay. I hope that in this case the dealer did not do the same thing and crack out a card that he knew was altered.

There are collectors who prefer raw cards but graded cards levels the playing field. In the raw world the price and grade is set by the dealer. Each of us grades differently. In the graded world, the TPG sets the grade and the market/comps sets the price range. I want to believe that an astute dealer adjusts the price of a card accordingly (well not on Ebay).

Years, ago I was at a show and asked a major dealer why the price of a PSA 7 card I wanted to purchase was carrying almost an 8 premium. The major dealer stated "if the card was broken out it would now grade a 7.5". I nodded and moved on and have never purchased a card from that dealer.

[Johnny630]

Grading has total control of this industry...love it or hate it...it can do three things, make people money, lose people money, and drive them to insanity.

It's something to watch. Eve if you don't grade it effects you in one way or another. It's tentacles have long reach.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by glchen

My concerns here is that I remember a seller on ebay a few years back where basically he made his business to crack out nice looking Authentic cards and then sell them raw on ebay. I hope that in this case the dealer did not do the same thing and crack out a card that he knew was altered.

There are more than several who do this. ebay or not. I know an old timer who buys and sells at shows and he finally shared his secret that he cracks out slabs and then prices at Beckett high,,, He does discount though...