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View Poll Results: Who is the greatest living player today?
Ronald Acuna Jr 1 0.24%
Johnny Bench 16 3.86%
Mookie Betts 0 0%
Barry Bonds 116 28.02%
Steve Carlton 0 0%
Roger Clemens 2 0.48%
Ken Griifey Jr 37 8.94%
Rickey Henderson 27 6.52%
Randy Johnson 2 0.48%
Sandy Koufax 52 12.56%
Greg Maddux 7 1.69%
Pedro Martinez 5 1.21%
Shohei Ohtani 18 4.35%
Albert Pujols 16 3.86%
Cal Ripken Jr 5 1.21%
Alex Rodriguez 0 0%
Pete Rose 39 9.42%
Nolan Ryan 34 8.21%
Mike Schmidt 17 4.11%
Ichiro Suzuki 7 1.69%
Mike Trout 1 0.24%
Other 12 2.90%
Voters: 414. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #11  
Old 06-25-2024, 07:41 AM
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cgjackson222 cgjackson222 is online now
Charles Jackson
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Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
Yes his career home ERA at the Coliseum wasn't great, not sure about his numbers at Ebbets. But EVERYONE'S numbers were awful at the Coliseum.

People also seem to lose track of the fact that Koufax put it all together as a starter around 23 years old and became elite at 24. Perfectly normal ages for a pitcher to "get there" Do we really penalize him for the Dodgers not being able to send him to the minors because of the bonus baby rules?

If he had been able to develop normally maybe his greatness comes out even earlier, who knows. At the very least he doesn't have those first 4 or 5 years weighing down his career numbers because they're in the minors.

Hell there are a number of elite pitchers who don't even start getting their first cups of coffee until about the time he started to put it all together. I just don't see the sense in "punishing" him for career totals that are deflated by those years that should've been spent in the minors.

Also, those years that everyone loves to hate were actually right about league average, not some dumpster fire. So you get a guy who was average from age 19 to age 23-24. I did the work in another thread somewhere but there are tons of HOF pitchers who weren't very good until that 23 -24 year old range, and they NEVER had a 6 year stretch like Koufax's peak. IF you're going to argue against Koufax the better argument is him being done at 30, rather than criticism of his learning years that should've been spent in the minors.


And again I didn't vote for him as the greatest living player.
+1

All good points regarding the bonus baby rules forcing him to pitch in the Majors well before he was developed, and how he actually developed in a normal timeline.

And I also agree he isn't the best living player.

He may not even be the best living left handed pitcher. That may be Randy Johnson--a guy that didn't get going until he was 29, but didn't slow down until his early 40s, while having the highest ERA+ 6x, winning 5 Cy Youngs, leading the League in strikeouts 9x, and winning 3 games in a World Series vs. the Yankees on his way to a WS MVP.

Of course, if Koufax had stayed healthy, he might actually be the best living player.

Last edited by cgjackson222; 06-25-2024 at 08:06 AM.
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