Every slabbed card has a story, don't it?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So Heritage has "in-house card doctors" but they don't alter cards? That one, I don't follow?

They clean cards and remove stains. They don't, at least to my knowledge, trim, recolor, or rebuild corners or anything like that.

We're just quibbling over our differences of the definition of "altered". I am using the definition that the grading companies use in practice, which is that cleaned cards and soaked cards are acceptable and will receive numeric grades if they are cleaned properly. They all allow cleaned cards. Just look at the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of cards with white borders and beat-to-hell corners and other obvious significant surface wear that are graded as numeric. Those graders aren't stupid. You can't get a beat-up-looking card with white borders without cleaning it. Yet, they allow it. Every time. What they don't allow is a card with some soap scum on it or one that looks like it lost a 12-round title fight with a jug of Clorox.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

They clean cards and remove stains. They don't, at least to my knowledge, trim, recolor, or rebuild corners or anything like that.

We're just quibbling over our differences of the definition of "altered". I am using the definition that the grading companies use in practice, which is that cleaned cards and soaked cards are acceptable and will receive numeric grades if they are cleaned properly. They all allow cleaned cards. Just look at the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of cards with white borders and beat-to-hell corners and other obvious significant surface wear that are graded as numeric. Those graders aren't stupid. You can't get a beat-up-looking card with white borders without cleaning it. Yet, they allow it. Every time. What they don't allow is a card with some soap scum on it or one that looks like it lost a 12-round title fight with a jug of Clorox.

I don't think they actually allow it anymore than they allow trimmed, recolored, creased removed, rebuilt cards to pass grading. If the job is done well enough or the work done is not actually detectable, they might not catch it or maybe it is that they catch it almost 100% of time except for submitters who have those privileges.

Unless the grading companies are complicit in that they see the work done and look the other way and slap a number on the card, responsibility is with the submitter (assuming he/she did the work) or the person submitting the card for the person who did the work. Not the cops' fault is they do not stop a robbery in progress.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I don't think they actually allow it anymore than they allow trimmed, recolored, creased removed, rebuilt cards to pass grading. If the job is done well enough or the work done is not actually detectable, they might not catch it or maybe it is that they catch it almost 100% of time except for submitters who have those privileges.

Unless the grading companies are complicit in that they see the work done and look the other way and slap a number on the card, responsibility is with the submitter (assuming he/she did the work) or the person submitting the card for the person who did the work. Not the cops' fault is they do not stop a robbery in progress.

I don't know how often they detect trimming, recoloring, crease removals, or rebuilt corners, but I can provide insight into how often I've had cards rejected for cleaning because that number is zero. I've cleaned thousands of cards. I've literally never had a single card ever once rejected by any grading company for me having cleaned it. Not once. That said, I also don't use anything that would damage the card or leave behind some sort of residue. Surely there are people out there who are in fact damaging cards because they don't know what they're doing and I'm sure the grading companies are flagging those with at least some degree of accuracy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

They clean cards and remove stains. They don't, at least to my knowledge, trim, recolor, or rebuild corners or anything like that.

We're just quibbling over our differences of the definition of "altered". I am using the definition that the grading companies use in practice, which is that cleaned cards and soaked cards are acceptable and will receive numeric grades if they are cleaned properly. They all allow cleaned cards. Just look at the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of cards with white borders and beat-to-hell corners and other obvious significant surface wear that are graded as numeric. Those graders aren't stupid. You can't get a beat-up-looking card with white borders without cleaning it. Yet, they allow it. Every time. What they don't allow is a card with some soap scum on it or one that looks like it lost a 12-round title fight with a jug of Clorox.

That's not an answer to my question. Why are you calling them "card doctors" if you don't think they're doctoring cards?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That's not an answer to my question. Why are you calling them "card doctors" if you don't think they're doctoring cards?

Because I'm not equating "card doctoring" with "altering cards". I think you can "doctor" a card in both acceptable and unacceptable manners.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Because I'm not equating "card doctoring" with "altering cards". I think you can "doctor" a card in both acceptable and unacceptable manners.

Then why did you even mention it in your post? It was obviously meant to be provocative. Plus, you surely know the negative connotation of the term card doctor. So you must consider yourself a card doctor if you're doing acceptable things to cards?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Then why did you even mention it in your post? It was obviously meant to be provocative. Plus, you surely know the negative connotation of the term card doctor. So you must consider yourself a card doctor if you're doing acceptable things to cards?

Someone from Snowman's corner throw in the towel.

[G1911]

I would love to see the evidence that the following are all "notorious card doctors": eBay, Probstein, Heritage, Goldin, REA, Mile High, LotG.

Of course, this won't be done because while there is some truth to a couple of those, the claim is presumably intentionally outrageous and wrong to obfuscate and switch direction away from PWCC, for which this poster frequently shills when he isn't claiming he can read strangers minds and tell their sins because he is a gambler.

Not every claim should be taken seriously.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Someone from Snowman's corner throw in the towel.

Serious question. Do you ever add anything of value to any conversation? Or do you just stick to trolling at all times?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Serious question. Do you ever add anything of value to any conversation? Or do you just stick to trolling at all times?

That is actually a hilarious question coming from you of all the members here, Travis.

By the way, you never answered me what size shirt I should order for you.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Because I'm not equating "card doctoring" with "altering cards". I think you can "doctor" a card in both acceptable and unacceptable manners.

So I guess the word “notorious” is ambiguous as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[CardPadre]

In the near future, a card doctor may simply be someone who heals cards.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

In the near future, a card doctor may simply be someone who heals cards.

My card took two aspirin and felt fine the next morning.

Me thinks some of those wrinkles on Mays will come back over time. But I don't have any experience with removing creases like that so maybe I am wrong.
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am sure the defenders and contrarians will defend this. To me, it's just wrong unless disclosed.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Leon

My card took two aspirin and felt fine the next morning.

Me thinks some of those wrinkles on Mays will come back over time. But I don't have any experience with removing creases like that so maybe I am wrong.
.

They're still there. They didn't go away. The light angle is just different so you can't see them as clearly, and the wrinkles are less severe now that the card has regained some of its shape by introducing moisture. But I guarantee you these creases did not disappear.

In the top photo, the light source is placed parallel to the card surface, which highlights creasing (if you don't do this when self-grading your cards, you should). In the second photo, the light source is above and to the right, which hides the creases.