Hey, pennant guys

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

So this recent sale on eBay is interesting. Has Keezer stamp on back. So it seems they were making these until at least 1972. These “late term” Keezers are identifiable by a simpler logo and the font/script. An Astros “astronaut” also sold which was pretty cool.

These late-term Keezers are identifiable from their earlier ones by the simpler logo and the same font/script.

Also interesting is that - to my knowledge - the trademarked Trench and ASCO Rangers pennants are thick, and very stiff, cardboard-like felt. It appears here that Keezer was still roughly the same quality as always.

(This led me to pull up Kyle’s incredible history of Keezer … very informative.)

That's a cool pennant. The sellers description was *interesting*...saying the pennant was from the 50s. Anyone want to tell them the history of the Rangers?

[Buffalo Mike]

Greetings, All. I'm good friends with the collector who purchased the questionable Red Sox pennant on eBay last week. After reading the many posts on the pennant I called my friend to inform him of the discussion. Needless to say, he's now very concerned about the pennant. I told him I would post this to ask if any of you experts would be willing to speak with him. He understands that he would need to contact the eBay seller first and then contact eBay if he and the seller are unable to resolve the dispute. If you're willing to speak with him, please DM me and I will pass along your contact info. Thank you in advance, as he's a great guy who deserves our help.

Mike

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Mike

Greetings, All. I'm good friends with the collector who purchased the questionable Red Sox pennant on eBay last week. After reading the many posts on the pennant I called my friend to inform him of the discussion. Needless to say, he's now very concerned about the pennant. I told him I would post this to ask if any of you experts would be willing to speak with him. He understands that he would need to contact the eBay seller first and then contact eBay if he and the seller are unable to resolve the dispute. If you're willing to speak with him, please DM me and I will pass along your contact info. Thank you in advance, as he's a great guy who deserves our help.

Mike

I’m not an expert, but I think posts 8221 and 8222 pretty conclusively show your friend was duped into a Mitchell and Ness reproduction (tassels and bases). I think (hope) ebay will resolve this.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Mike

Greetings, All. I'm good friends with the collector who purchased the questionable Red Sox pennant on eBay last week. After reading the many posts on the pennant I called my friend to inform him of the discussion. Needless to say, he's now very concerned about the pennant. I told him I would post this to ask if any of you experts would be willing to speak with him. He understands that he would need to contact the eBay seller first and then contact eBay if he and the seller are unable to resolve the dispute. If you're willing to speak with him, please DM me and I will pass along your contact info. Thank you in advance, as he's a great guy who deserves our help.

Mike

Mike, check your DM. Definitely a repro.

[perezfan]

I would be willing to talk with him, but everything I would tell him is pretty much articulated already in my prior posts. Not much to add, really...

Spine: Too wide
Tassels: Too close together
Material: Wrong felt
Overall size: Too small- should be oversized
Graphics: Wrong, with the design of the Bases being the biggest tip-off
Dated 1918: No previous exemplars have a date added

My best advice would be to file for a return immediately. Don't let any more time pass, and use the informative posts here as your argument against it's authenticity. eBay normally supports the Buyer, so they can force the issue even if the seller pushes back. Start the return process today!

[Buffalo Mike]

Thank you, Rob, Greg, and Mark. I’ve been exchanging emails with Greg and will be preparing the formal dispute on behalf of my friend. I did email the seller and stated our position, citing your specific posts in the thread. He replied last night and was cordial, saying that he read the posts, but he still believes the pennant is authentic and a possible “one of a kind” from 1918.

I will post updates re the status of the dispute, and thank you all again for your time, information, and support.

(Buffalo) Mike in San Diego

[bocca001]

A few weeks ago, someone listed a bunch of cloth Trench football and baseball pennants on ebay that had clearly been in storage for many years. No duplicates, but many different teams. Only a few were rare in terms how often they come for sale, but I think they were rare in terms of quality. I ended up winning the Giants and 49ers. If you ever wondered what these looked like brand new (minus a need for some ironing), here you go.

[ooo-ribay]

^^^^ Beauties! 👍

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Mike

Thank you, Rob, Greg, and Mark. I’ve been exchanging emails with Greg and will be preparing the formal dispute on behalf of my friend. I did email the seller and stated our position, citing your specific posts in the thread. He replied last night and was cordial, saying that he read the posts, but he still believes the pennant is authentic and a possible “one of a kind” from 1918.

I will post updates re the status of the dispute, and thank you all again for your time, information, and support.

(Buffalo) Mike in San Diego

This person is trying to save the extreme profit they made or the poor decision they made to buy this from someone else. The “1918” pennant in question has all the telltale signs of a repro that others have mentioned. I have personally owned and sold at least 4 different of these original pennants. Your 1918 repro has none of the definition of the originals. Look at the font and the thickness and detail of the “ribbon” around the circle of text. In the genuine pennants they have more detail and you can see some very small “lines” in the screen printing meant to make the edge appear to be waiving in the wind. The “1918” pennant is 100% fake and I’m sorry if the seller is left holding the bag. They should have done better research. Dispute the sale and contact your credit card company if they used one. It’s 100% fake.

[Domer05]

Back to this "one of a kind" 1918 Red Sox pennant....

I happen to know that the genuine version of this flag (sans "1918," that is) was manufactured by Annin & Co. of NY (a.k.a., A & Co. of NY). To my knowledge, it was the only professional baseball pennant ever made by the legendary pennant maker in the 20th century.

I know this because I own the 1923 edition of Annin's sales catalogue. It features a page identical to the one below....

Note that the Red Sox pennant illustrated appears exactly the same as the others previously identified on this thread as genuine.

It looks nothing like the M&N repro; and it looks nothing like this "1918" job some unscrupulous pennant maker tried to pass off as being 100+ years old. If the design had been updated between 1916 and 1918, you would expect Annin to showcase the more contemporary variant by 1923, when this catalogue was published.

Case closed: it's fake.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Mike

Thank you, Rob, Greg, and Mark. I’ve been exchanging emails with Greg and will be preparing the formal dispute on behalf of my friend. I did email the seller and stated our position, citing your specific posts in the thread. He replied last night and was cordial, saying that he read the posts, but he still believes the pennant is authentic and a possible “one of a kind” from 1918.

I will post updates re the status of the dispute, and thank you all again for your time, information, and support.

(Buffalo) Mike in San Diego

I wonder if this ever got resolved?

[ooo-ribay]

Not the greatest condition, but it was a cheap variation I didn't have. And look...when I put it in a sleeve with another one tassel pennant, they both look complete!