Hey, pennant guys

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

OK. So the original was the B&W as on the black pennant, and it was damaged or gone so the owner made the color one fit? He did a pretty good job! Was that replacement noted in the offering?

Yes, yes and no.

I would beg to differ on the “pretty good job” on the replacement. Yes, it (kind of) fit but did you see the “vintage” masking tape on the back side?

[bocca001]

I think Rob needs to put the 1962 picture in the orange pennant. It seems like that is what should be there. It does seem like the Falstaff pic is not right. 1962 is the only known team photo pennant for the Giants.

On the black 1962 team pennants, the image is glued to the felt. For this orange pennant, the felt is cut. Rob, does that cut look professional to you? Or more like a hack job?

Really kind of a mystery. At last year's National, football Rob picked up a copy of the black pennant for me that had no picture. It did have the WC mark, like this new orange pennant. It is also not all that hard to find an original copy (i.e., correct size) of the 1962 team photo that goes on the pennant. I have one (that I'm going to someday glue onto the blank pennant) and I've seen others for sale. I wonder if the WC concessionaire assembled the pennants on site (as opposed to them coming assembled from Trench) and never got around to assembling everything, probably because of a decrease in demand after the 1962 World Series.

But that doesn't explain why nobody has ever seen an orange copy before. Hard to believe there can be only one.

And nice Cardinals pennants everyone.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

I think Rob needs to put the 1962 picture in the orange pennant. It seems like that is what should be there. It does seem like the Falstaff pic is not right. 1962 is the only known team photo pennant for the Giants.

On the black 1962 team pennants, the image is glued to the felt. For this orange pennant, the felt is cut. Rob, does that cut look professional to you? Or more like a hack job?

Really kind of a mystery. At last year's National, football Rob picked up a copy of the black pennant for me that had no picture. It did have the WC mark, like this new orange pennant. It is also not all that hard to find an original copy (i.e., correct size) of the 1962 team photo that goes on the pennant. I have one (that I'm going to someday glue onto the blank pennant) and I've seen others for sale. I wonder if the WC concessionaire assembled the pennants on site (as opposed to them coming assembled from Trench) and never got around to assembling everything, probably because of a decrease in demand after the 1962 World Series.

The opening/no opening hadn’t even occurred to me. Sure enough, the team photo on my black pennant is glued to the front with no cutout. The cutout on the orange pennant looks completely “professional” - sharp edges and no overcut at the corners. I know there are other team photo pennants with the cutout. Maybe Domer has some insight into this variation in the manufacturing process?

I guess I’m going to need a Giants team photo with a bit of a border if I’m going to glue it from the back…

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

The opening/no opening hadn’t even occurred to me. Sure enough, the team photo on my black pennant is glued to the front with no cutout. The cutout on the orange pennant looks completely “professional” - sharp edges and no overcut at the corners. I know there are other team photo pennants with the cutout. Maybe Domer has some insight into this variation in the manufacturing process?

I guess I’m going to need a Giants team photo with a bit of a border if I’m going to glue it from the back…

Most of the Trench picture pennants from the early 60s had cardboard pictures that were affixed with a larger rectangle of clear tape. The picture itself seemed to be about the same size as the cutout, and if it was put together sloppily you’d see gaps.

[Domer05]

In the early 1960s, Trench used a dye cutter to remove the rectangular portion of the picture window. They made so many photo pennants, this machine was a worthwhile investment. As Greg noted, they typically used a photo printed on a cardstock-like paper that was affixed to the back with a pre-cut, rectangular clear tape. Additionally, their photos were, at least in the early 1960s, printed exclusively for their use; and bore their name and/or Sportservice's name on the reverse, along with a team roster/caption.

After 1962, Trench's photo backs no longer bore their name. By the 1970s, they occasionally used post cards, supplied by other vendors, for the photo.

Other manufacturers of course dabbled in photo pennants in the 1960s. ASCO's photos often came from post cards, supplied by other vendors. WGN made a few photo pennants as well; however, they got a bit lazy: they just stapled the photo to the pennant's front-side, thereby bypassing any need to cut the window or tape the pennant. And at least one maker actually screen printed the image of the team photo on to the felt, using half-tones--a printing technique actually pioneered by The Reproduction Co. back in the 1910s. See, e.g., this 1960 NL champs pennant....

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

In the early 1960s, Trench used a dye cutter to remove the rectangular portion of the picture window. They made so many photo pennants, this machine was a worthwhile investment. As Greg noted, they typically used a photo printed on a cardstock-like paper that was affixed to the back with a pre-cut, rectangular clear tape. Additionally, their photos were, at least in the early 1960s, printed exclusively for their use; and bore their name and/or Sportservice's name on the reverse, along with a team roster/caption.

After 1962, Trench's photo backs no longer bore their name. By the 1970s, they occasionally used post cards, supplied by other vendors, for the photo.

Other manufacturers of course dabbled in photo pennants in the 1960s. ASCO's photos often came from post cards, supplied by other vendors. WGN made a few photo pennants as well; however, they got a bit lazy: they just stapled the photo to the pennant's front-side, thereby bypassing any need to cut the window or tape the pennant. And at least one maker actually screen printed the image of the team photo on to the felt, using half-tones--a printing technique actually pioneered by The Reproduction Co. back in the 1910s. See, e.g., this 1960 NL champs pennant....

Good stuff, Kyle … I’ll just add that Keezer dabbled in picture pennants a bit just for the Red Sox.

[thetahat]

Ugh

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

The opening/no opening hadn’t even occurred to me. Sure enough, the team photo on my black pennant is glued to the front with no cutout. The cutout on the orange pennant looks completely “professional” - sharp edges and no overcut at the corners. I know there are other team photo pennants with the cutout. Maybe Domer has some insight into this variation in the manufacturing process?

I guess I’m going to need a Giants team photo with a bit of a border if I’m going to glue it from the back…

I think it just came down to time: cutting the window looks better; but, takes longer.

If time was of the essence, say ... two teams tied for first place that year, requiring a three game play-in to settle the pennant, your time was extremely limited if your customer/concessionaire had any hopes of selling that pennant at the world series. So, Trench may have had to cut some corners when this situation occurred.

[ooo-ribay]

Great info, Kyle and Greg! I finished “restoring” my hammered Giants pennant. I’ll post a picture soon.

[bocca001]

A few months ago, I posted about my attempt at restoring a very faded 1962 Giants team pennant. The dye job ran onto the graphics and I had to (I guess I didn't have to) repaint them. Decided to turn it into a fantasy 1958 pennant. If you had this in hand, it would be clear that it was painted by a true non-artist.
Thanks to football Rob for editing the Falstaff out of the bottom of the team picture.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Yes, yes and no.

I would beg to differ on the “pretty good job” on the replacement. Yes, it (kind of) fit but did you see the “vintage” masking tape on the back side?

Gorilla tape works great for re-attaching the photos in photo pennants and looks more authentic than masking tape.

It's a little hard to manipulate and align perfectly by yourself (when it sticks, it sticks) but that's why God invented wives.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Gorilla tape works great for re-attaching the photos in photo pennants and looks more authentic than masking tape.

It's a little hard to manipulate and align perfectly by yourself (when it sticks, it sticks) but that's why God invented wives.

I don't know if you're kidding or not. As you say, Gorilla Tape is some very sticky stuff. I would have liked to have the 6" wide clear tape Greg spoke of but, even if I could find some, I wasn't about to buy a whole roll.

As it was, I found my image on the inter webs...saved the image and pasted it into a doc...it was printing kind of blueish until a light bulb went off and I printed it in straight b&w. I then wasted a lot of ink trying to size it perfectly. At one point, I needed to shrink it and I enlarged it. I finally got it right. I left a border and spray glued it (another tedious process) from the back. I'm done.

[Fballguy]

Great job Rob. That looks fantastic!

Wasn't kidding at all about the Gorilla tape. 99% of football picture pennants have the die cut hole so glue isn't really a good option. There's not enough picture border to get a good seal. The tape works great....but you need a couple extra hands.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I don't know if you're kidding or not. As you say, Gorilla Tape is some very sticky stuff. I would have liked to have the 6" wide clear tape Greg spoke of but, even if I could find some, I wasn't about to buy a whole roll.

As it was, I found my image on the inter webs...saved the image and pasted it into a doc...it was printing kind of blueish until a light bulb went off and I printed it in straight b&w. I then wasted a lot of ink trying to size it perfectly. At one point, I needed to shrink it and I enlarged it. I finally got it right. I left a border and spray glued it (another tedious process) from the back. I'm done.

That turned out great Rob. I'm also a fan of spray glue to re-affix photos to the pennant.

All this discussion about photo pennants inspired me to get my photo pennants out.

And here's 4 new arrivals. Am I right to think that the 1948 Indians pennant is less common in green?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

That turned out great Rob. I'm also a fan of spray glue to re-affix photos to the pennant.

All this discussion about photo pennants inspired me to get my photo pennants out.

And here's 4 new arrivals. Am I right to think that the 1948 Indians pennant is less common in green?

Fantastic stuff, Gary! You have quite a collection.

One last question: on my Giants pennant, the spine was in ruins. Moths? If moths, why are the body and tassels unharmed? The tassels are obviously a different material and the body may be cloth. Is the spine felt more tasty?

[bocca001]

These clearly had tasty spines. This was the blank (no pic) one that came from the national. I just glued the picture. Both yours and mine were likely unused and sat in a box for many years.

I have another Giants pennant that sadly got some attention from silverfish. They went right for the spine.

[Domer05]

The spines were, by the early 1960s, the only part of a Trench pennant that was still 100% wool. Whatever that woven cloth was made of that was being used for their pennant bodies, didn't appeal to critters at all. But it sure faded easy; and it definitely frayed.

Even the 70/30 wool/rayon blends, which Collegiate of Ames and Chipenco had moved to by the 1950s for their pennant bodies, held up surprisingly well to critters. The Rayon must've been poison!