Collectibles Markets vs Economy - Why does it have to be this way?

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by philo98

As a global nomad for the last 30+ years, the US has some of the worlds lowest inflation. Even in 2023, in some reports, it falls in the top 10 for countries with the lowest inflation. Always have to laugh when Americans complain about money.

If you think inflation is hurting you, in many of these countries I have been in, a person with a bachelor degree and 10 years experience will get paid around $500-$700 a month. To rent a two bedroom condo, which is considered safe and liveable, can easily be $700+ a month. Middle class is generally both parents working, one car, and eating meat 3 days a week. Dont even get me started on gas prices.

There is a reason Barnum and Bailey's went out of business. US society took its place.

Some of us have smooth brains and very short memories. No inflation is ever as bad as the inflation we're experiencing right now. And the person responsible is either the current guy or the last guy, depending on perspectives that have nothing to do with economics.

[philo98]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

Some of us have smooth brains and very short memories. No inflation is ever as bad as the inflation we're experiencing right now. And the person responsible is either the current guy or the last guy, depending on perspectives that have nothing to do with economics.

In all honesty, I just dont see inflation that bad in the US compared to where I travel on a regular basis. I just see a massively entitled society who cant afford the lifestyle they feel they should have, which doesnt include most members on this board since the amount of discretionary income would be considered high compared to the rest of the crowd. Unfortunately, the US is a massively unhealthy, entitled society who overspends on complete junk. Also, and what I have seen, most people like to blame political appointees for their own problems instead of taking responsibility. The 2nd best decision I ever made was to never register to vote and remain politically neutral. The best decision I ever made was renouncing US citizenship.

[packs]

What does entitlement look like though? I believe I should be able to buy a house, afford to raise a child, and send that child to college. I don't believe I'm entitled for feeling that way. Those were attainable benchmarks for every other generation. But for people my age, these are now considered luxuries and many of us are passing on them.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

What does entitlement look like though? I believe I should be able to buy a house, afford to raise a child, and send that child to college. I don't believe I'm entitled for feeling that way. Those were attainable benchmarks for every other generation. But for people my age, these are now considered luxuries and many of us are passing on them.

That sounds like entitlement to me. That sounds like a great goal you need to work hard to achieve. In my 54 years of experience it was never an attainable benchmark for everyone.

[packs]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That sounds like entitlement to me. That sounds like a great goal you need to work hard to achieve. In my 54 years of experience it was never an attainable benchmark for everyone.

I didn't mention anything about what I was doing to achieve my goal. Only that I had them and they don't seem outrageous or even that much different than society has ever had. However, they seem to be much harder to get.

The birthrate has fallen 23% in the last 15 years. The number of US households from 2010 to 2020 was the smallest gain in any decade between 1950 and 2010.

The idea that if you don't have what you want you aren't working hard enough is also outdated. This isn't a meritocracy and there's no such thing as working harder than everyone else to achieve more. I think it's much more likely that many people will work themselves to death and not gain very much in the process.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

I didn't mention anything about what I was doing to achieve my goal. Only that I had them and they don't see outrageous or even that much different than society has ever had. However, they seem to be much harder to get.

Do you not agree? the birthrate has fallen 23% in the last 15 years. The number of US households from 2010 to 2020 was the smallest gain in any decade between 1950 and 2010.

How old are you? I have seen this big jump in prices 3 times that I remember.

The birth rate has fallen because overall smart people are having way less kids. You don't see many doctors, lawyers, or other younger professionals with big families. Unfortunately if you go to the poor areas they are still breeding like rabbits. That is a major part of most problems.

[packs]

Originally Posted by bnorth

How old are you? I have seen this big jump in prices 3 times that I remember.

The birth rate has fallen because overall smart people are having way less kids. You don't see many doctors, lawyers, or other younger professionals with big families. Unfortunately if you go to the poor areas they are still breeding like rabbits. That is a major part of most problems.

I know people with big families and I know people with small families or no family, but none of them have mentioned their degrees when discussing why they had children or didn't.

People with good jobs are still finding it just as hard to buy a house or afford to live where they work:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...s-18164328.php

[raulus]

Originally Posted by packs

I didn't mention anything about what I was doing to achieve my goal. Only that I had them and they don't seem outrageous or even that much different than society has ever had. However, they seem to be much harder to get.

Do you not agree? the birthrate has fallen 23% in the last 15 years. The number of US households from 2010 to 2020 was the smallest gain in any decade between 1950 and 2010.

The idea that if you don't have what you want you aren't working hard enough is also outdated. This isn't a meritocracy and there's no such thing as working harder than everyone else to achieve more. I think it's much more likely that many people will work themselves to death and not gain very much in the process.

Time to fire up the class wars and dig in a bit. With any luck, this will turn into a shouting match that devolves into ad hominem attacks and denials of our common humanity.

If you're struggling to acquire the necessities of life, then I'd recommend cutting back on buying cardboard.

If you're struggling to make important financial investments like buying a house or sending your kid to school, then I'd also recommend cutting back on buying cardboard.

I do think that the current home buying market is incredibly difficult, and I wouldn't want to buy a house in this market. If you're in the market to buy a house but find that it's not currently attainable, and if you want my advice, which isn't worth much, then my advice would be to continue to save for your down payment and wait for the right opportunity. Certainly that's what we did from 2002 to 2008 while living in the SF Bay Area, which was a crazy housing market in its own way. A lot of our friends took out stupid loans they couldn't afford simply because the bank would give it to them. We waited and saved, until the time was right to pull the trigger.

I also think that when it comes to education, not everyone needs to go to college. There are plenty of really great jobs in the trades to be had without a college degree. And if your kids do go to college, then make sure to be wise about that investment. Go to a school that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to attend. If necessary, then spend a year or two at a community college to accumulate GE credits. Whatever you do, study in a field that is marketable. If you're expecting everything to turn out peachy by dropping $70k per year on an expensive private school while studying in a field where you are unlikely to ever make more than $50k per year, then you should probably reevaluate your strategy.

I do think that in general, we have to be willing to work hard and sacrifice for the nicer things in life, including that house or that education. Usually that means being willing to make some important decisions about what we really want out of life, and what we can sacrifice today in order to achieve those goals.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can tell you that we made a lot of sacrifices for a very long time to accomplish all of the things that you mention. I toiled long, long hours for over a decade to work my way up in my organization. Others bailed for an easier job and a quick bump to get 20% higher pay, while I stuck it out and kept my eye on the ultimate prize.

We lived in a 2-bedroom apartment with 3 kids so that we could save for a down payment on our house. I commuted 1.5 hours each way every day so that we could save on rent. We watched every penny, drove old beater cars, and denied ourselves a tremendous amount of potential stuff so that we could save for our kids' educations. Most of our peers around us were living the good life, buying everything they saw and going on fancy vacations, but we lived well beneath our means to save for the future.

To take it a step further, when we were ready to buy, we moved to a less expensive part of the country so that we could actually buy a house. Our kids are going to less expensive universities so that they don't have to take out gigantic student loans that will loom over them for decades to come like a veritable sword of Damocles. On that note, my son declined admittance to Stanford just last year, because spending $300k on an undergraduate degree didn't make much sense from a cost/benefit perspective.

I don't buy the doom and gloom and the talk that it's impossible to achieve our dreams. I do absolutely find that it is not easy, and requires a lot of work and sacrifices for an extended period of time that the average American is loath to actually undertake and really work in a dedicated fashion to accomplish.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by raulus

Time to fire up the class wars and dig in a bit. With any luck, this will turn into a shouting match that devolves into ad hominem attacks and denials of our common humanity.

If you're struggling to acquire the necessities of life, then I'd recommend cutting back on buying cardboard.

If you're struggling to make important financial investments like buying a house or sending your kid to school, then I'd also recommend cutting back on buying cardboard.

I do think that the current home buying market is incredibly difficult, and I wouldn't want to buy a house in this market. If you're in the market to buy a house but find that it's not currently attainable, and if you want my advice, which isn't worth much, then my advice would be to continue to save for your down payment and wait for the right opportunity. Certainly that's what we did from 2002 to 2008 while living in the SF Bay Area, which was a crazy housing market in its own way. A lot of our friends took out stupid loans they couldn't afford simply because the bank would give it to them. We waited and saved, until the time was right to pull the trigger.

I also think that when it comes to education, not everyone needs to go to college. There are plenty of really great jobs in the trades to be had without a college degree. And if your kids do go to college, then make sure to be wise about that investment. Go to a school that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to attend. If necessary, then spend a year or two at a community college to accumulate GE credits. Whatever you do, study in a field that is marketable. If you're expecting everything to turn out peachy by dropping $70k per year on an expensive private school while studying in a field where you are unlikely to ever make more than $50k per year, then you should probably reevaluate your strategy.

I do think that in general, we have to be willing to work hard and sacrifice for the nicer things in life, including that house or that education. Usually that means being willing to make some important decisions about what we really want out of life, and what we can sacrifice today in order to achieve those goals.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can tell you that we made a lot of sacrifices for a very long time to accomplish all of the things that you mention. I toiled long, long hours for over a decade to work my way up in my organization. Others bailed for an easier job and a quick bump to get 20% higher pay, while I stuck it out and kept my eye on the ultimate prize.

We lived in a 2-bedroom apartment with 3 kids so that we could save for a down payment on our house. I commuted 1.5 hours each way every day so that we could save on rent. We watched every penny, drove old beater cars, and denied ourselves a tremendous amount of potential stuff so that we could save for our kids' educations. Most of our peers around us were living the good life, buying everything they saw and going on fancy vacations, but we lived well beneath our means to save for the future.

To take it a step further, when we were ready to buy, we moved to a less expensive part of the country so that we could actually buy a house. Our kids are going to less expensive universities so that they don't have to take out gigantic student loans that will loom over them for decades to come like a veritable sword of Damocles. On that note, my son declined admittance to Stanford just last year, because spending $300k on an undergraduate degree didn't make much sense from a cost/benefit perspective.

I don't buy the doom and gloom and the talk that it's impossible to achieve our dreams. I do absolutely find that it is not easy, and requires a lot of work and sacrifices for an extended period of time that the average American is loath to actually undertake and really work in a dedicated fashion to accomplish.

I sense we are at rather opposite ends of the spectrum politically, yet I find myself in near complete agreement with your post. Many Americans are magical thinkers: they believe money will find them rather than understanding that choices and sacrifices are still necessary components of life, even in the most prosperous nation the world has ever seen. I was very, very lucky in that respect. As a non-neurotypical person, I never understood or gave a darn about status, branding, rules of polite society, feelings (as many here can tell) etc. A car is transport, not a statement, so I buy good ones and drive them into the ground. A house is where you fart, not a showplace, so it has to be comfortable, not big, and not filled with crap I then have to buy, maintain, clean and insure. And so on. My wife shared my values, so it worked out great. We planned for my daughter's college and grad school (well, we got blindsided a bit when she wanted medical school, but she got over that after dealing with patients in a clinical setting as a volunteer; sick people suck), and we planned for our retirement and declines. We don't get the elaborate vacations: We spent that money for a long-term care policy, so we would not be broken by living expenses at the end of life.

[bcbgcbrcb]

I have no college degree, 30 years of retail experience and a heart that operates at about 50% capacity. I would love to have $500-$700 monthly income coming in. Since 2017, I have collected a grand total of $1,200 from employment. That's in nearly 7 years!!! Maybe now, some here can see and begin to understand where I am coming from not only with the hobby these days but the U.S. economy in general. And, yeah, I know, there is always somebody else worse off than you are.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

I have no college degree, 30 years of retail experience and a heart that operates at about 50% capacity. I would love to have $500-$700 monthly income coming in. Since 2017, I have collected a grand total of $1,200 from employment. That's in nearly 7 years!!! Maybe now, some here can see and begin to understand where I am coming from not only with the hobby these days but the U.S. economy in general. And, yeah, I know, there is always somebody else worse off than you are.

Apologies if this is lacking in empathy, but I’m not sure I understand where the economy makes a big difference. I promise I’m not the world’s largest jerk, even if some may beg to differ based on this post.

But if inflation is 2% or 20%, it seems like you’re in an incredibly impossible situation either way.

[Vintagedeputy]

All I know is, I sure had more money in my pocket during the prior administration.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

All I know is, I sure had more money in my pocket during the prior administration.

Of course you did. They juiced the economy by borrowing from the future lol. But there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Also, this inflation was coming regardless of who would be sitting in the white house.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

All I know is, I sure had more money in my pocket during the prior administration.

We all did Jim. We all did. Going green ain't cheap. Reminds me of when I try to eat healthy. The healthy food is SOOOOOOOO expensive. You wanna eat like s**t?!?! .99 cent double cheeseburgers. It's ridiculous.

[Shoeless Moe]

Phil, I think possibly you bought too much during the peak, but I could be wrong, just a guess. I'm still making plenty in 2023 from memorabilia (Tickets, Programs, Baseballs, other vintage oddball items). "You gottta know when to hold 'em, know when the fold 'em." said a wiseman.....or was that Kenny Rogers? Ya had to know not to buy durng the peak. Prices were getting nutty, FOMO was a joke. I loved it. Bought me a truck.

Sold during the Peak, that was the key. And still selling.

and yes prices are down from the peak but they are still above before Covid.

You need to know when to use Ebay when to use an auction house, which auction houses do better at what. If you can be first, be first. Once an item hits the next one almost always go for less. Sold an item at Lelands for 4K, exact same item then sold at Hunt for $800, just a couple months later, could of been me, but my item was first.

So money still out there to be made in this game just gotta know how to play the game....one piece of advice, buy in the Fall sell when the new year hits. No one spends this time of year. It's the After National before Christmas Lull. But come January/February people start buying again. Want say even with Covid & the Peak this was the case, guessing /hoping it will be again come the new year. If not wait it out, or be strategic.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by packs

What does entitlement look like though? I believe I should be able to buy a house, afford to raise a child, and send that child to college. I don't believe I'm entitled for feeling that way. Those were attainable benchmarks for every other generation. But for people my age, these are now considered luxuries and many of us are passing on them.

Haven't read the whole thread, so maybe someone else addressed this but....home ownership rates are slightly above historical norms. It is a myth that everyone has always been able to own a home.

And I'd suggest everyone on here, that has disposable income to collect sports cards, can own a home somewhere decent in the USA. US Home prices have mostly tracked inflation save for 2020 to 2022, and those gains are about to be give all back.

So ya, you have the exact same opportunity to own a home in the USA as the generation previous. In fact the low interest rate policy of the past 12 years made homes accessible for people that frankly didn't have the income to own a home. But also drove up prices.