Could Brown Lenox Be Related To AB 460?

[Leon]

Nice research, Pat!
.

[tedzan]

Back in July 2017, I posted my theory regarding the Brown LENOX phenomena. And this is it, Check-it-out......


The timeline of the printing of these Group B subjects was with AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, LENOX, and UZIT cards was Jan - Feb 1911. This exact timeline coincides with the
printing of the T80 (Military Men) cards. Shown below, the T80 cards were printed with CAIRO MONOPOL, LENOX, OLD MILL, TOLSTOI, and UZIT backs.

To date, 25 brown LENOX cards are confirmed. If my theory proves true, I predict that 11 (or 12) more T206 cards may eventually be discovered with the brown LENOX backs.
Exactly 19 subjects of the 25 brown LENOX cards are from the 350/460 series, and 6 subjects are from the 460-only series......


350/460 series....Group B



Brown LENOX......a total of 25 (or 26) subjects have been confirmed.


350/460 series.....19 (or 20) subjects confirmed with brown LENOX backs

Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Tinker (bat off shoulder) ..................remains to be seen ?
Wagner (bat on right shoulder)
Willetts
Willis (bat)



T80 cards




So, here is my hypothesis: The printer at American Lithographic failed to switch from the brown ink after press runs of T80 CAIRO MONOPOL backs to black ink prior to starting
a press run of T206 LENOX backs. Apparently, this mistake was caught quickly, which would explain why very few T206 brown LENOX examples exist.
Instead of QA discarding these brown LENOX cards, the sheets were factory-cut, and these brown LENOX cards were shipped along with the black LENOX cards to Factory #30.
And, inserted into LENOX cigarette packs.


The 6 brown LENOX cards from the 460-only series are from the same group of 9 subjects that are the only confirmed PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 cards in this series.

460-only series subjects confirmed with brown LENOX backs

Chase (trophy)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)

I expect these 3 subjects from the 460-only series will eventually be found with brown LENOX backs......

Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)


Let's see your T206 brown LENOX cards. Show them if you have them.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

Furthermore......

Since my above stated theory (circa 2017), I'm batting 1.000. Approx. 7 (or 8) new Brown LENOX cards have been discovered....all of which having conformed to my theory.

NOTE....74 T206's in the set were printed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back, however only these 28 guys from the [B]350/460 series are printed with the AB 460 back.

350/460 series....Group B (AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 cards). The remaining 46 are from the 460-only series.





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Back in July 2017, I posted my theory regarding the Brown LENOX phenomena. And this is it, Check-it-out......


The timeline of the printing of these Group B subjects was with AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, LENOX, and UZIT cards was Jan - Feb 1911. This exact timeline coincides with the
printing of the T80 (Military Men) cards. Shown below, the T80 cards were printed with CAIRO MONOPOL, LENOX, OLD MILL, TOLSTOI, and UZIT backs.

To date, 25 brown LENOX cards are confirmed. If my theory proves true, I predict that 11 (or 12) more T206 cards may eventually be discovered with the brown LENOX backs.
Exactly 19 subjects of the 25 brown LENOX cards are from the 350/460 series, and 6 subjects are from the 460-only series......


350/460 series....Group B



Brown LENOX......a total of 25 (or 26) subjects have been confirmed.


350/460 series.....19 (or 20) subjects confirmed with brown LENOX backs

Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Tinker (bat off shoulder) ..................remains to be seen ?
Wagner (bat on right shoulder)
Willetts
Willis (bat)



T80 cards




So, here is my hypothesis: The printer at American Lithographic failed to switch from the brown ink after press runs of T80 CAIRO MONOPOL backs to black ink prior to starting
a press run of T206 LENOX backs. Apparently, this mistake was caught quickly, which would explain why very few T206 brown LENOX examples exist.
Instead of QA discarding these brown LENOX cards, the sheets were factory-cut, and these brown LENOX cards were shipped along with the black LENOX cards to Factory #30.
And, inserted into LENOX cigarette packs.


The 6 brown LENOX cards from the 460-only series are from the same group of 9 subjects that are the only confirmed PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 cards in this series.

460-only series subjects confirmed with brown LENOX backs

Chase (trophy)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)

I expect these 3 subjects from the 460-only series will eventually be found with brown LENOX backs......

Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)


Let's see your T206 brown LENOX cards. Show them if you have them.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Tinker (bat off)
Tinker Bat Off.jpg

[tedzan]

Ryan

You provided Brown LENOX confirmation regarding Tinker and Jennings (one hand), and I forgot to include them in my list.

Stay young my friend......my mind is beginning to slip.


So, here is the current complete lists of 27 brown LENOX cards with respect to their Series......

350/460 Series......

Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right shoulder)
Willetts
Willis (bat)

460-only Series......

Chase (trophy)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


My expectations are that 8 more will eventually be discovered.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Leon

Nice research, Pat!
.

Thanks Leon but apparently it's Ted's thread and theory now I guess.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Thanks Leon but apparently it's Ted's thread and theory now I guess.

It's your thread, Pat. Ted had information prior also.
You have done more research than 99.5% of collectors. Likewise, with Ted.
I have always considered the forum a collaborative effort.
.

[FrankWakefield]

Ted, Pat, double thanks to both of you.


As to the printer failing to change the ink for the backs... I'd think it was a conscious decision. It's a pain to scrape the previous ink out of the pan, and then clean everything. And then put different ink in there. It would be easier, take less time, and slightly more cost effective to use what brown ink you had in the pan, and then add black as the brown was used. There may be cards out there that are mainly black, but just ever so slightly brownish black.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

There may be cards out there that are mainly black, but just ever so slightly brownish black.

Oh my God, this may be true but don't get this started. By next week every seller of a slightly faded black Lenox on eBay will be claiming that their card is 30% Brown Lenox.

[Rhotchkiss]

I think both Ted and Pat are massive assets. Plus, it’s fun to read the bickering something. Keep on posting guys!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I think both Ted and Pat are massive assets. Plus, it’s fun to read the bickering something. Keep on posting guys!

Agreed, both are doing great work.

The bickering is important. If an idea can't stand up to some bickering it's probably not right anyway.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Ted, Pat, double thanks to both of you.


As to the printer failing to change the ink for the backs... I'd think it was a conscious decision. It's a pain to scrape the previous ink out of the pan, and then clean everything. And then put different ink in there. It would be easier, take less time, and slightly more cost effective to use what brown ink you had in the pan, and then add black as the brown was used. There may be cards out there that are mainly black, but just ever so slightly brownish black.

Hi Frank,

I think for the most part it has to do with when they were printed and/or what facility they were printed at. I think the Sub Rosa's in the T59 set which were printed in the same timeframe as the T206's are a good comparison to the T206 Lenox.

The color variations in the T59 set is something that is discussed on a regular basis among those that collect them. Many people think most if not all of the questionable color variations are the result of fading or a chemical reaction. The more research I do on the Sub Rosa's the more I think the color variations found on that particular back are the result of different inks.

I still have a lot more research to do on it but almost all of the Brown variations that I have seen come from two out of a possible 14 different factory and series combinations.

Factory 129 is found on series 2, 3, and 4 and all of the brown backs that I have seen are from the 4th series.

img869.jpg

Factory 229 is found on all 4 series and all but one possible brown series 3 that I have seen the rest are from the series 2

img870.jpg

img656 - Copy.jpg

Factory 606 is also found on all 4 series and I've yet to see any brown factory 606 backs.

img871.jpg

Factory 649 is found on series 1 and 2 only and to me most of these have a faded grayish tint to them but I have yet to see one of these that look brown to me.

img875.jpg

As I stated above I still have a lot more research to do on these but if the brown found on this back was do to fading in my opinion they would be found on more than two specific backs and factories.

[G1911]

I believe brown to only exist on subsections of 129 and 229 in the later series. Pretty confident 606 and 649 do not come this way, with 649 being a 'lighter black'.

Black doesn't normally fade to brown on these T cards - for example, Recruit black T59 is one of the most common of all T card combinations. They don't really come in brown though, despite allegations they do. I've had thousands of them, not a single brown. I've spent years scouring T68 black RB backs and can't locate a single brown one that has also been alleged to exist. Black can create a brownish appearance from certain uncommon chemical reactions, but I cannot make black T cards fade to brown via light in my experimenting. If a back is routinely found brown, I feel comfortable behaving as if it was printed a different color; a single or very small number of one offs, particularly if bearing glue damage, are probably altered blacks.

Just my 2 cents, probably worth a penny.

[tedzan]

To reiterate...regarding my connection of the Brown LENOX cards to AB 460 (and UZIT) cards....it goes back to my discovery of the Mutually-Exclusive factor
of the 63 subjects in the 350/460 Series. I presented this phenomena on Net54 circa 2010. Since pictures speak louder than "1000 words", illustrated here
are the 63 subjects in their respective group.

Group A of the 350/460 series includes 35 subjects printed and issued with these four 460-type backs (circa..late 1910 > early 1911).

. . .
Factory #25 VA ......................... Factory#42 N.C.


Conversely, these 35 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.... AMERICAN BEAUTY 460....UZIT


Group A

.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Group B




Group B of the 350/460 series includes 28 subjects printed and issued with these two 460-type backs (circa..Feb-Mar 1911).

.


Conversely, these 28 subjects were NOT PRINTED with.. SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 25.. SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42.. red HINDU.. BROAD LEAF 460


Therefore, I maintain that the brown LENOX subjects were (accidently) being printed ONLY during American Lithograph's press run(s) of Group B T206's.

I have predicted correctly more than 12 brown LENOX cards since I came up with this theory.

Let us see how long my Batting Average will continue to remain "1.000"


TED Z

T206 Reference
.




.