Could Brown Lenox Be Related To AB 460?

[tedzan]

A "true-blue" Brown OLD MILL back which most likely resulted when the printer was running tests with the brown ink
he printed the brown HINDU Southern Leaguers.
Furthermore, on this card he also ran printer's tests using the red Factory #649 overprint.


Incidently, this card was in my collection years ago. I believe Ryan is the current owner now.






TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

The brown Old Mills are very different when comparing them to Brown Lenox.
The Old Mills are a consistent brown while the Lenox are found in several different shades of brown.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

A "true-blue" Brown OLD MILL back which most likely resulted when the printer was running tests with the brown ink
he printed the brown HINDU Southern Leaguers.
Furthermore, on this card he also ran printer's tests using the red Factory #649 overprint.


Incidently, this card was in my collection years ago. I believe Ryan is the current owner now.






TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Ted I'm curious when did you have the Greminger? This is the info that I have on it.
It was purchased by a collector many years ago from Lew Lipset. That collector had it until it was sold in a 2010 REA auction where it was purchased by David Hall who had it until it was sold in a 2019 Heritage auction where it was purchased by Ryan.

Were you the person that purchased it from Lew Lipset?

[Pat R]

Mike emailed me about his Schlei, he louped it and he is going to post about that.

Here is his Schlei on the right compared to this Schlei black Lenox on the left in the 2nd image.

Schlei Black.jpg

Schlei Black back.jpg

[MVSNYC]

Prior to 24 hours ago, my son and I were very happy with our "Black" Lenox Schlei. I had never thought of it being Brown, thus had never thoroughly looked at it under a loupe. After seeing Pat's comments about the card potentially being Brown, I decided to look at it more closely. It wasn't the typical Jet Black you see with Lenox, or Carolina Brights. It definitely leaned dark dark Brown, not a true Black. It had a warm hue to it, and felt more "espresso". Pat's side by side comparison above with a true Black example is an accurate visual. I've owned many Lenox's over the years, Black and Brown, after my close analysis in hand, under a loupe, this one leans dark Brown.

Here's a few more images, one is next to a Carolina Brights (true Black), and the others are close ups of the Schlei, adjacent to the black insert in the SGC holder.

(Thanks to Pat for pointing it out and encouraging me take a deeper look at it. If I sell or trade it (which I may, as I already have another Brown Lenox), I will give Pat a little something, as a gesture.)

[Pat R]

Hey Mike happy to help no need to give me anything if you sell or trade it.

The brown Lenox especially the ones with the shade/tint like your Schlei can be difficult to tell until you compare them with a Black Lenox.

[Pat R]

A member has another Willis that is also brown that he sent me images of.

Image (6380) - Copy.jpg

Image (6379).jpg

Image (6379) backs.jpg

Image (6381).jpg

Image (6382).jpg

Image (6382) backs.jpg

You can see it better in these images that I adjusted the contrast on which has the same affect on all the cards/colors when they are from the same image.

Image (6379) backs - Copy.jpg

Image (6382) backs - Copy.jpg

[Pat R]

Edited on request.

[Pat R]

Now that the auction is over I will re-post some of the information that several people asked to remove.

I believe that all of the 350/460 print group 3 subjects were printed with brown ink only and that any of them in the pop reports listed as black are incorrectly labeled.

Davis - Copy.jpg

Doyle (with bat) - Copy.jpg

Lake (no ball) - Copy.jpg

Davis comparison.jpg

Doyle comparison.jpg

Lake comparison.jpg

The 460 only print group 4 subjects however were printed with both black and brown.

Schlei (portrait) - Copy.jpg

Schlei (portrait) back - Copy.jpg


I also want to add that I think it's wrong to create a fake provenance or ownership of any card but especially a card like the Greminger. I know if I owned the Greminger I would want to know the history of the card.

I don't know the exact year but it was originally sold in a Lew Lipset auction many year ago and was purchased by Louis Despres who had it until it was sold in a 2010 REA auction where it was purchased by David Hall who had it until it was sold it in a 2019 Heritage where it was purchased by Ryan who as far as I know still has it.

Originally Posted by tedzan

A "true-blue" Brown OLD MILL back which most likely resulted when the printer was running tests with the brown ink
he printed the brown HINDU Southern Leaguers.
Furthermore, on this card he also ran printer's tests using the red Factory #649 overprint.


Incidently, this card was in my collection years ago. I believe Ryan is the current owner now.






TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Leon]

Nice comparison of the backs, Pat.

Originally Posted by Pat R

Now that the auction is over I will re-post some of the information that several people asked to remove.

I believe that all of the 350/460 print group 3 subjects were printed with brown ink only and that any of them in the pop reports listed as black are incorrectly labeled.

Attachment 594389

Attachment 594391

Attachment 594392

Attachment 594393

Attachment 594394

Attachment 594395

The 460 only print group 4 subjects however were printed with both black and brown.

Attachment 594396

Attachment 594397


I also want to add that I think it's wrong to create a fake provenance or ownership of any card but especially a card like the Greminger. I know if I owned the Greminger I would want to know the history of the card.

I don't know the exact year but it was originally sold in a Lew Lipset auction many year ago and was purchased by Louis Despres who had it until it was sold in a 2010 REA auction where it was purchased by David Hall who had it until it was sold it in a 2019 Heritage where it was purchased by Ryan who as far as I know still has it.