The Authenticator Strikes Again

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by G1911

I hope this program dies or they let me sign a waiver opting out of it or similar, but I have not had anything rejected for being scratched. I've got some less than nice SGC slabs (which I cut open and destroy upon receipt). If what everyone I've talked to says is true, then PSA is really inconsistent about what they are doing with this program, which doesn't surprise. PSA authenticating SGC slabs is wild.

The program has its good points. I recently was nearly robbed of 35K by an eBay seller with over 10K feedback who tried to sell me a card he didn’t possess. After I paid, I realized the next day that the scans were lifted from a Memory Lane auction. When the seller realized he was required to send the card to the authenticator first, he instead wrote to me that he was “ nervous” about sending the card to anyone but me and instead refunded my money. I wrote to him and explained that in future scams he needed to keep the purchase price below the $250 level which triggers the program. He never responded. I sent all this info to eBay including the Memory Lane auction scans and eBay acknowledged the fraud — but only put the seller on probation.

[raulus]

The concept of the authentication process seems sound. Obviously this outcome is a complete bastardization of that concept.

Peter - Just out of curiosity, what kind of volume do you have on eBay that is subject to the AG? Do you sell 1 piece per year, so they're basically hitting you every time? Or are you selling 1,000 items per day, so they only bounce you out 0.01% of the time?

Just trying to get a better handle on the stupidity rate.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

The concept of the authentication process seems sound. Obviously this outcome is a complete bastardization of that concept.

Peter - Just out of curiosity, what kind of volume do you have on eBay that is subject to the AG? Do you sell 1 piece per year, so they're basically hitting you every time? Or are you selling 1,000 items per day, so they only bounce you out 0.01% of the time?

Just trying to get a better handle on the stupidity rate.

This was through a friend who sells a fairly high volume. But not the first time it happened with a perfectly nice SGC slab. The irony, they slab countless altered cards, but reject an SGC slab with a barely visible surface scratch.

[Snapolit1]

Authentication and grading feeds an egotistic, OCD, selfish urge among many collectors to have the best judged version of something. As a collector, I love the rush of having the highest graded or a very highly graded anything. The idea that my card is a 1 or 1 or one of the nicest 10 or 20 or 50 of something is a real turn on, pardon the terminology, to me as a collector. Shallow? I am sure many would say so. Different strokes for different folks as they say. I have ungraded. I have beaters. And I have 1 of 1s and 1 of 3s. There is no way the unslabbed beater is as cool to me as the stunning 1 of 1 or 1 of 3. Sorry. That's what museums are for. The best existing version of something.

Not an argument for altering cards. . . .

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This was through a friend who sells a fairly high volume. But not the first time it happened with a perfectly nice SGC slab. The irony, they slab countless altered cards, but reject an SGC slab with a barely visible surface scratch.

I guess we should applaud them for their sudden desire to enforce standards and attention to detail, and respectfully request that they apply that same diligent and watchful eye to their primary service, and not just to this random sideline endeavor.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This was through a friend who sells a fairly high volume. But not the first time it happened with a perfectly nice SGC slab. The irony, they slab countless altered cards, but reject an SGC slab with a barely visible surface scratch.

PSA: Professional Slab Authenticator. Useless program done by a totally corrupt company.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The program has its good points. I recently was nearly robbed of 35K by an eBay seller with over 10K feedback who tried to sell me a card he didn’t possess. After I paid, I realized the next day that the scans were lifted from a Memory Lane auction. When the seller realized he was required to send the card to the authenticator first, he instead wrote to me that he was “ nervous” about sending the card to anyone but me and instead refunded my money. I wrote to him and explained that in future scams he needed to keep the purchase price below the $250 level which triggers the program. He never responded. I sent all this info to eBay including the Memory Lane auction scans and eBay acknowledged the fraud — but only put the seller on probation.

As with any widespread program used many thousands of times, I am sure there are numerous individual occasions it will prove useful. I have no doubt it will save people who have done no research into what a real card looks like especially. This particular scenario though is covered under the prior eBay policy anyways; I have always been refunded at the 30 day mark by eBay when the seller has not actually had the item (or refused to ship) under that policy.

I am not a fan of PSA being able to unilaterally veto a deal following the rules of the hosting platform, and myself and the seller have both consented to and are doing of our own volition for almost any reason PSA or CSG decides. I collect a lot of obscure cards that aren't baseball; so a high percentage of things I buy are technically described or listed on. So far the saving grace for me is that PSA/CSG doesn't understand them either to know it was described wrong. A scratch on the holder, small damage on a rare card I don't care about and saw in the picture, there are way too many ways for PSA/CSG to kill a deal I as the buyer have consented to do and want the card anyways. Some people have reported PSA has reached out to them about an issue before killing their deal; other deals they just kill unilaterally and ignore what the two people want. It's moved a lot of my insignificant plebe money off of eBay because the platform is becoming increasingly unreliable and I'm tired of the 'will I get my card or not' game.

If eBay actually banned scammers and cracked down instead of arranging junk programs like this to dance around the actual root problem, it would be a much better platform.

[ullmandds]

they're puttin' the SQUEEZE...on SGC.

[raulus]

Greg - just out of curiosity, have you ever had a deal killed like this by the AG process?

I’ve had two deals flagged by the AG process, at which point they emailed me and asked if I still wanted the item. In one case, the case had cracked completely open, and I decided against buying it. In the other case, the raw piece had some undisclosed flaws. I wanted it anyway, and they sent it my way.

I’m never quite sure if my 2 experiences are typical, or an extreme outlier.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

Greg - just out of curiosity, have you ever had a deal killed like this by the AG process?

I’ve had two deals flagged by the AG process, at which point they emailed me and asked if I still wanted the item. In one case, the case had cracked completely open, and I decided against buying it. In the other case, the raw piece had some undisclosed flaws. I wanted it anyway, and they sent it my way.

I’m never quite sure if my 2 experiences are typical, or an extreme outlier.

Yes, for item not as described, which was true but it was an obscure card and the seller's incorrectness was neither deceitful nor nefarious nor egregious, I believe. I was not contacted before hand, the deal was simply killed and a refund pushed through by eBay.

The one I was real nervous about PSA let slide through even the wrong subject was named in the auction title, but it was a very rare card in my favorite set (and I paid a record price for any card in that set, before I get accused again of robing the seller like last time) and I got it without it even being flagged, though technically it should have. So very inconsistent experience with getting flagged.

I have heard from many other people that they have had the same thing happen as I have had; not being contacted first. But I have also heard from many people that they were contacted first and presented the option of getting the card anyways. It seems to be an inconsistent thing, or perhaps it has been settled one way or the other recently. I will jump through some hoops for a rare card I really want, but common commodity cards over $250, I'll skip and just buy from someone over email and make it easier for both of us.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The program has its good points. I recently was nearly robbed of 35K by an eBay seller with over 10K feedback who tried to sell me a card he didn’t possess. After I paid, I realized the next day that the scans were lifted from a Memory Lane auction. When the seller realized he was required to send the card to the authenticator first, he instead wrote to me that he was “ nervous” about sending the card to anyone but me and instead refunded my money. I wrote to him and explained that in future scams he needed to keep the purchase price below the $250 level which triggers the program. He never responded. I sent all this info to eBay including the Memory Lane auction scans and eBay acknowledged the fraud — but only put the seller on probation.

A slap on the wrist suspension for a potential $35K fraud attempt? Sorry but WTF? I don't get it. Is it because the seller had 10K+ feedbacks? That's just jacked up.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Fred

A slap on the wrist suspension for a potential $35K fraud attempt? Sorry but WTF? I don't get it. Is it because the seller had 10K+ feedbacks? That's just jacked up.

I was honestly shocked. The seller basically admitted the fraud to me by not responding and his explanation for the stolen scans was laughable. What he did was a clear criminal fraud -- and instead of banning him, or referring the matter to law enforcement -- eBay put him on double secret probation. Really sickening stuff.

[perezfan]

Maybe he had a good defense attorney?

Seriously though, I agree… it’s a no-brainer. He should’ve been banned.

[obcmac]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The program has its good points. I recently was nearly robbed of 35K by an eBay seller with over 10K feedback who tried to sell me a card he didn’t possess. After I paid, I realized the next day that the scans were lifted from a Memory Lane auction. When the seller realized he was required to send the card to the authenticator first, he instead wrote to me that he was “ nervous” about sending the card to anyone but me and instead refunded my money. I wrote to him and explained that in future scams he needed to keep the purchase price below the $250 level which triggers the program. He never responded. I sent all this info to eBay including the Memory Lane auction scans and eBay acknowledged the fraud — but only put the seller on probation.

Are you against outing the seller and card? I would think a 35K attempted theft/fraud would be of interest to someone in law enforcement (maybe I'm foolish for thinking so).

[Leon]

Originally Posted by obcmac

Are you against outing the seller and card? I would think a 35K attempted theft/fraud would be of interest to someone in law enforcement (maybe I'm foolish for thinking so).

35k would be for your local authorities unless it's some kind of bigger ring of fraud. Think 6 figures, or ongoing mass fraud, to get the FBI involved. I believe that is what (then) FBI SA Brusokas had said at the speech he gave at the 2019 Net54baseball dinner..
.