450 HR and counting and really not so good

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Interesting that total WAR is not just oWAR + dWAR. Can anyone explain how it's calculated?

"oWAR looks to calculate a player’s offensive contribution alone, completely removing his fielding. It does adjust for position, however, which can make a big impact. Meanwhile, dWAR compares a player’s defensive efforts to a league-average fielder, again adjusting for position.

Though oWAR and dWAR do isolate the two halves of bWAR, they cannot be summed to reach the overall figure. There are a lot of minor intangibles that are too particular to dive into here, but the basic roadblock is the positional adjustment. bWAR, oWAR, and dWAR all incorporate some sort of adjustment for position, making it possible to compare shortstops to first baseman. But because oWAR and dWAR both include an adjustment, summing them would double the magnitude of this factor as compared to bWAR."

https://www.blessyouboys.com/2019/1/...ment-bwar-fwar

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

"oWAR looks to calculate a player’s offensive contribution alone, completely removing his fielding. It does adjust for position, however, which can make a big impact. Meanwhile, dWAR compares a player’s defensive efforts to a league-average fielder, again adjusting for position.

Though oWAR and dWAR do isolate the two halves of bWAR, they cannot be summed to reach the overall figure. There are a lot of minor intangibles that are too particular to dive into here, but the basic roadblock is the positional adjustment. bWAR, oWAR, and dWAR all incorporate some sort of adjustment for position, making it possible to compare shortstops to first baseman. But because oWAR and dWAR both include an adjustment, summing them would double the magnitude of this factor as compared to bWAR."

https://www.blessyouboys.com/2019/1/...ment-bwar-fwar

Good summation. It's also the reason Mike Trout can catch 3 routine fly balls in Centerfield and his dWAR score goes up, and why Don Mattingly can scoop 3 badly thrown balls out of the dirt at 1st Base, and his dWAR score goes down.

dWAR is vicious with 1st Basemen and Right Fielders.

I think Defensive WAR is much harder to quantify then offensive WAR.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Good summation. It's also the reason Mike Trout can catch 3 routine fly balls in Centerfield and his dWAR score goes up, and why Don Mattingly can scoop 3 badly thrown balls out of the dirt at 1st Base, and his dWAR score goes down.

dWAR is vicious with 1st Basemen and Right Fielders.

I think Defensive WAR is much harder to quantify then offensive WAR.

Yeah, its extremely difficult to have a positive dWAR as a first baseman or right fielder--Keith Hernandez, who many consider to be the greatest fielding first baseman ever has a career dWAR of 1.3.

Roberto Clemente, widely considered the greatest fielding right fielder ever has a career dWAR of only 12.2. Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Mel Ott, Reggie Jackson, Tony Gwynn, Vlad Guerrero, Dave Winfield, Harry Heilmann, Paul Waner, and Bryce Harper all have negative dWAR, many of them by double digits.

And yeah, I think its harder to measure dWAR than oWAR.