Card doctoring video

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

Like painting a house prior to listing for sale? Or having a badly faded car run through a detailer to fix the paint? Or having a Rolex movement serviced before sale? Resetting headspace in a firearm? Having a CD/DVD/BR resurfaced? Ironing bank notes with starch? Cleaning coins?

Every hobby has it’s maneuverers.

It comes down to caveat emptor…..

All those things should also be disclosed. A car with original paint is worth more. Rolex with fully original parts worth more. New physical media in untouched unopened condition is always worth considerably more your examples all suck. I love the jack asses above arguing with Adam and Peter about the law. These two are both lawyers and know the law. Arguing with them about it is hysterical.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by glynparson

All those things should also be disclosed. A car with original paint is worth more. Rolex with fully original parts worth more. New physical media in untouched unopened condition is always worth considerably more your examples all suck. I love the jack asses above arguing with Adam and Peter about the law. These two are both lawyers and know the law. Arguing with them about it is hysterical.

Sorry, but I fail to see how this could rise to a crime.

A person has a card, alters the card, and then sells the card (take grading out of it). How is this a crime? Unethical, yes, but a crime?

And please don't bring up Maestro. He was not convicted of altering a card (that is a myth).

While I hate this subject as much as other collectors, throwing around the word crime for something that it is not is frustrating.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How many times do I have to explain this going all the way back to 2019? I give up. Think whatever you want, ignorance is bliss as they say. And yes, while not the main focus of the case, if you actually read the Mastro indictment (to which he pled guilty) part of it is selling the Wagner without disclosure that it was altered. Not myth, fact.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How many times do I have to explain this? I give up. Think whatever you want, ignorance is bliss as they say. And yes, while not the main focus of the case, if you actually read the Mastro indictment (to which he pled guilty) part of it is selling the Wagner without disclosure that it was altered. Not myth, fact.

So I am reading the indictment:

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/ch...r-collectibles

So I am seeing that part, but what I am not seeing is him being convicted of that.

"In a plea agreement, Mastro admitted to driving up prices through shill bidding between 2002 and 2009. He and his associates would bid up auctions to drive prices higher."

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/pr...l-bidding-scam

Read the discussion of the Wagner.

Here, I'll make it easy for you.

The T206-series Wagner card is considered one of the world’s most expensive trading cards. Mastro admitted in the plea agreement that he cut the card’s side borders, and then concealed this information when he sold the card in 1987. Mastro again failed to disclose his alteration even after participating in subsequent auctions of the card in 1991 and 2000. The sale in 2000 produced a purchase price of more than $1 million, according to the plea agreement. Mastro also failed to disclose that he cut the Wagner card again in 1992, even though he was aware that the card had been submitted to become the first baseball card assigned a grade based on the condition of the card.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/pr...l-bidding-scam

Read the discussion of the Wagner.

Here, I'll make it easy for you.

The T206-series Wagner card is considered one of the world’s most expensive trading cards. Mastro admitted in the plea agreement that he cut the card’s side borders, and then concealed this information when he sold the card in 1987. Mastro again failed to disclose his alteration even after participating in subsequent auctions of the card in 1991 and 2000. The sale in 2000 produced a purchase price of more than $1 million, according to the plea agreement. Mastro also failed to disclose that he cut the Wagner card again in 1992, even though he was aware that the card had been submitted to become the first baseball card assigned a grade based on the condition of the card.

He admitted to that, no doubt. But was he charged with that as a crime? I am not seeing that. Not trying to be difficult, I don't see it.

"The former owner and CEO of a sports memorabilia auction house was sentenced Thursday to 20 months in federal prison for using phony bids to fraudulently inflate the price of his company’s listings at auction."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

He admitted to that, no doubt. But was he charged with that as a crime? I am not seeing that. Not trying to be difficult, I don't see it.

"The former owner and CEO of a sports memorabilia auction house was sentenced Thursday to 20 months in federal prison for using phony bids to fraudulently inflate the price of his company’s listings at auction."

Are you reading some press account? The plea agreement sets forth what he was charged with and pled guilty to. It's right there. He was charged with it (see also indictment) and pled guilty to it. Do you think he admitted it just for the hell of it?

[nwobhm]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I love the jack asses above arguing with Adam and Peter about the law. These two are both lawyers and know the law. Arguing with them about it is hysterical.

No doubt… a lawyer is infallible.

Regardless, I can be convinced that trimming is truly illegal.

Possible to point me in the direction of a trimmer be convicted specifically of card trimming?

Not looking for convoluted TPG, shilling scams.

An actual straightforward case of a guy trimmed a card, didn’t disclose, then sold it for profit….?