Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

[isiahfan]

CONTEMPORARY...Please be clear about that...only need 12/16...taking the juice out the equation....because well I feel it was just part of the era for each

My votes:

Obvious Yes
Bonds - Top 10 ATG OF
Clemens - Top 10 ATG SP

Yes
Palmiero - Look at his #'s...only 4 AS???...IN

Leaning towards Yes
McGriff - Better numbers than those listed below...quiet but stats don't lie
Belle - Man...Feels like a no because of the narrative...but dude had a 10 year run of total domination...right there with Frank and the Kid suring that time. Puckett didn't dominate like this for 10 years...actually not many did.

No
Schilling - wasn't super consistent and total numbers just aren't there for me...great postseason success doesn't equal HOF
Mattingly - Total numbers and lenght of dominant run just don't add up
Murphy - Great guy...but again total numbers just don;t do it for me

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by isiahfan

CONTEMPORARY...Please be clear about that...only need 12/16...taking the juice out the equation....because well I feel it was just part of the era for each

My votes:

Obvious Yes
Bonds - Top 10 ATG OF
Clemens - Top 10 ATG SP

Yes
Palmiero - Look at his #'s...only 4 AS???...IN

Leaning towards Yes
McGriff - Better numbers than those listed below...quiet but stats don't lie
Belle - Man...Feels like a no because of the narrative...but dude had a 10 year run of total domination...right there with Frank and the Kid suring that time. Puckett didn't dominate like this for 10 years...actually not many did.

No
Schilling - wasn't super consistent and total numbers just aren't there for me...great postseason success doesn't equal HOF
Mattingly - Total numbers and lenght of dominant run just don't add up
Murphy - Great guy...but again total numbers just don;t do it for me

good recap just depends on the opinion the voters have on steriods. to me Schilling should be in

[insidethewrapper]

Was Lou Whitaker not eligible for this committee since he started in 1977 ? What was the cut off year ?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Was Lou Whitaker not eligible for this committee since he started in 1977 ? What was the cut off year ?

It’s for players whose “primary contribution” was after 1980, so I think Whitaker would have qualified to be considered for this final ballot. That he started in 1977 shouldn’t put him into the pre-1980 primary contribution group.

[Jason19th]

I will never understand the outrage about Shilling not being in and the assumption that it is because of his politics. Look at his numbers- the vast majority of guys with those numbers are not in and most have not been controversial exclusions- see Lew Burdette, Ron Guidry, Vida Blue, Kevin Brown, Orel Hershisrer, Mel Harder, Kenny Rodgers, David Wells, Luis Tiante, Wilbur Cooper, Mickey Lolich, Billy Pierce, Bob Welch, Dave Stewart, Denny McClain, Freddie Fitzimmons

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Jason19th

I will never understand the outrage about Shilling not being in and the assumption that it is because of his politics. Look at his numbers- the vast majority of guys with those numbers are not in and most have not been controversial exclusions- see Lew Burdette, Ron Guidry, Vida Blue, Kevin Brown, Orel Hershisrer, Mel Harder, Kenny Rodgers, David Wells, Luis Tiante, Wilbur Cooper, Mickey Lolich, Billy Pierce, Bob Welch, Dave Stewart, Denny McClain, Freddie Fitzimmons

Somewhat amazingly, the writers gave Curt 71.1% of the vote in 2021, which seems high based on the comps that you mentioned. Particularly for the writers, who seem to be pretty picky of late.

[frankbmd]

What if 75% of the voters (the dirty dozen) are on steroids? Will anyone care if these dudes are in the HOF in fifty years?

[timn1]

Correct - I despise Schilling but if he had Clemens' numbers he would be in for sure. He's just not there stats-wise. I'd much rather see Orel Hershiser get in, or Billy Pierce, or Tiant.

McGriff played in an era of much less offense than the Bonds/Palmeiro group. He belongs in the Hall, I think. Mattingly I'm on the fence about. Murphy not quite...

Originally Posted by Jason19th

I will never understand the outrage about Shilling not being in and the assumption that it is because of his politics. Look at his numbers- the vast majority of guys with those numbers are not in and most have not been controversial exclusions- see Lew Burdette, Ron Guidry, Vida Blue, Kevin Brown, Orel Hershisrer, Mel Harder, Kenny Rodgers, David Wells, Luis Tiante, Wilbur Cooper, Mickey Lolich, Billy Pierce, Bob Welch, Dave Stewart, Denny McClain, Freddie Fitzimmons

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by timn1

McGriff played in an era of much less offense than the Bonds/Palmeiro group.

McGriff: 1986-2004

Bonds: 1986-2007

Palmiero: 1986-2005

[scotgreb]

Originally Posted by G1911

It’s for players whose “primary contribution” was after 1980, so I think Whitaker would have qualified to be considered for this final ballot. That he started in 1977 shouldn’t put him into the pre-1980 primary contribution group.

Whitaker was on the last ballot (2020) and received 6 votes -- more than Murphy and Mattingly combined. My advice is to not try to make sense of the process or the decisions. There is no logic to piece together.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Mel Harder and Billy Pierce were friends of mine. Both were salt of the earth-caliber humble. While I often looked at Mel's numbers and all those years with just one club, I'm reminded what that writer said about Early Wynn in the "Worst HOFers" article recently posted in another thread. It was something akin to longevity does not always equal greatness. I think Mel's numbers do come close and are certainly comparable to some HOF pitchers. Bob Feller told me he thought Mel should be inducted, but there's no way to account for a bit of bias there. But, as we know, Feller was as outspoken as they come, and called things as he saw them, so it's hard to say. Just remember that he did personally witness the majority of Harder's pitching career.

On a personal level, I'd be thrilled for my old friends if they were enshrined, but realistically, it would make no sense. I was completely floored when Billy's name came up for serious consideration in a recent voting. Really? Billy Pierce? Like I said, a complete sweetheart of a human being, but I've never associated him as having anywhere near a HOF-caliber career.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by scotgreb

Whitaker was on the last ballot (2020) and received 6 votes -- more than Murphy and Mattingly combined. My advice is to not try to make sense of the process or the decisions. There is no logic to piece together.

The 2020 ballot used a different era system than the ‘reconstituted for like the 20th time’ new committees.

I’m not really a Whitaker advocate but I have a very hard time seeing how he’s out if Trammell is in. Whitaker has to get in at some point… maybe…

[G1911]

Schillings 79.5 WAR is pretty deep into obvious Hall territory.

Some voters were writing opinion pieces specifically stating they weren’t voting for him for social politics, as I recall.

I find it difficult to pretend he got a fair shake and is kept out on statistical grounds.