Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

scotgreb · #1 11-08-2022, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

It�s for players whose �primary contribution� was after 1980, so I think Whitaker would have qualified to be considered for this final ballot. That he started in 1977 shouldn�t put him into the pre-1980 primary contribution group.

Whitaker was on the last ballot (2020) and received 6 votes -- more than Murphy and Mattingly combined. My advice is to not try to make sense of the process or the decisions. There is no logic to piece together.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #2 11-08-2022, 04:42 PM

Mel Harder and Billy Pierce were friends of mine. Both were salt of the earth-caliber humble. While I often looked at Mel's numbers and all those years with just one club, I'm reminded what that writer said about Early Wynn in the "Worst HOFers" article recently posted in another thread. It was something akin to longevity does not always equal greatness. I think Mel's numbers do come close and are certainly comparable to some HOF pitchers. Bob Feller told me he thought Mel should be inducted, but there's no way to account for a bit of bias there. But, as we know, Feller was as outspoken as they come, and called things as he saw them, so it's hard to say. Just remember that he did personally witness the majority of Harder's pitching career.

On a personal level, I'd be thrilled for my old friends if they were enshrined, but realistically, it would make no sense. I was completely floored when Billy's name came up for serious consideration in a recent voting. Really? Billy Pierce? Like I said, a complete sweetheart of a human being, but I've never associated him as having anywhere near a HOF-caliber career.

G1911 · #3 11-08-2022, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotgreb

Whitaker was on the last ballot (2020) and received 6 votes -- more than Murphy and Mattingly combined. My advice is to not try to make sense of the process or the decisions. There is no logic to piece together.

The 2020 ballot used a different era system than the �reconstituted for like the 20th time� new committees.

I�m not really a Whitaker advocate but I have a very hard time seeing how he�s out if Trammell is in. Whitaker has to get in at some point� maybe�

G1911 · #4 11-08-2022, 04:49 PM

Schillings 79.5 WAR is pretty deep into obvious Hall territory.

Some voters were writing opinion pieces specifically stating they weren�t voting for him for social politics, as I recall.

I find it difficult to pretend he got a fair shake and is kept out on statistical grounds.

rand1com · #5 11-08-2022, 05:01 PM

None of them get in IMO.

Frank A · #6 11-08-2022, 05:14 PM

I hope clemens and bonds never get in.

Gorditadogg · #7 11-10-2022, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Schillings 79.5 WAR is pretty deep into obvious Hall territory.

Some voters were writing opinion pieces specifically stating they weren’t voting for him for social politics, as I recall.

I find it difficult to pretend he got a fair shake and is kept out on statistical grounds.

He deserves to be in based on his numbers. I just looked at his stats and he had some really good years. His 2002 year was incredible, 23-7 with a 3.23 ERA in 259 innings, and amazingly 316 strikeouts and only 29 walks. Of course he might be in the hall already if he didn't tell the sportswriters not to vote for him.

"I will not participate in the final year of voting. I am requesting to be removed from the ballot," he wrote. "I'll defer to the veterans committee and men whose opinions actually matter and who are in a position to actually judge a player. I don't think I'm a hall of famer as I've often stated but if former players think I am then I'll accept that with honor."

G1911 · #8 11-10-2022, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

He deserves to be in based on his numbers. I just looked at his stats and he had some really good years. His 2002 year was incredible, 23-7 with a 3.23 ERA in 259 innings, and amazingly 316 strikeouts and only 29 walks. Of course he might be in the hall already if he didn't tell the sportswriters not to vote for him.

"I will not participate in the final year of voting. I am requesting to be removed from the ballot," he wrote. "I'll defer to the veterans committee and men whose opinions actually matter and who are in a position to actually judge a player. I don't think I'm a hall of famer as I've often stated but if former players think I am then I'll accept that with honor."

Have a quote for the 9 years before that? Every time Schilling comes up, his tenth year ‘screw it’ is brought up in a vacuum as if the writers just politely respected his wishes all along. The context of how and why that quote was made are never brought up with it.

Mike D. · #9 11-10-2022, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Have a quote for the 9 years before that? Every time Schilling comes up, his tenth year �screw it� is brought up in a vacuum as if the writers just politely respected his wishes all along. The context of how and why that quote was made are never brought up with it.

Schilling looked sure to get in until the whole "sharing a meme about hanging journalists" thing a few years prior. His vote total still went up every year after that, but I feel like the last year thing didn't really cost him as much as the meme a few years earlier did.

I don't know if that's factual or not, but that's my take. Open to other interpretations.

G1911 · #10 11-10-2022, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Schilling looked sure to get in until the whole "sharing a meme about hanging journalists" thing a few years prior. His vote total still went up every year after that, but I feel like the last year thing didn't really cost him as much as the meme a few years earlier did.

I don't know if that's factual or not, but that's my take. Open to other interpretations.

I agree with this, and I think it's what the record suggests is the case. He was unpopular for being outspoken in the opposite direction of the media (some of the claims about his positions are true, and some were just completely false htitpieces. I remember the fake news push that he was a Nazi with a huge collection of nazi memorabilia, as it turned out he collects World War II memorabilia from across the world, as do many people. He was in trouble shortly before this for comparing Islamic extremism to Nazism) and sometimes a dumbass. The meme gave the writers the reason to block an enemy, which they took. His frustration over it and the request sunk his last chance, but it's fairly clear what the actual problem is for at least 9/10 of the saga. I wish I didn't know athletes political views, hot takes, and triggering memes, and they could simply be evaluated on reasonable grounds of actual merit, instead of tribalism.

Gorditadogg · #11 11-10-2022, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Have a quote for the 9 years before that? Every time Schilling comes up, his tenth year �screw it� is brought up in a vacuum as if the writers just politely respected his wishes all along. The context of how and why that quote was made are never brought up with it.

I thought I was clear with what I said. Schilling's numbers are good enough for the Hall of Fame and if he had kept his mouth shut he probably would have been voted in his last year. He chose to make a statement and blow up the process. Maybe you respect him for that, maybe you don't, but it was his decision.

We know the BBWAA is a fraternity and while many writers are stat-based and analytical, some are not. Players with positive attitudes that are good with interviews have always gotten bonus points for that, and likewise those with sour personalities get deducted for it. Nothing very insightful there, that is just the way it is. Rock Raines had to wait a long time to get in the Hall, Dick Allen is still not in.

My focus when looking at HOF credentials has always been to look at a player's value on the field. But if you are an ambassador to the game, like Ernie Banks maybe, that should count for something too. Certainly Jackie Robinson would deserve his spot in the hall even if he put up Rabbit Maranville numbers.

And on the other side, those who lessen the game by cheating, or otherwise putting the game in a bad light, should have that counted against them. Personally I don't think the controversial things Schilling has said since he retired from baseball should be much of a deduct, but on the other hand they sure don't help.

rand1com · #12 11-10-2022, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

He deserves to be in based on his numbers. I just looked at his stats and he had some really good years. His 2002 year was incredible, 23-7 with a 3.23 ERA in 259 innings, and amazingly 316 strikeouts and only 29 walks. Of course he might be in the hall already if he didn't tell the sportswriters not to vote for him.

"I will not participate in the final year of voting. I am requesting to be removed from the ballot," he wrote. "I'll defer to the veterans committee and men whose opinions actually matter and who are in a position to actually judge a player. I don't think I'm a hall of famer as I've often stated but if former players think I am then I'll accept that with honor."

He admitted he is not a Hall of Famer and he is 100% correct!

rhettyeakley · #13 11-10-2022, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand1com

He admitted he is not a Hall of Famer and he is 100% correct!

Care to give a reason, based on his playing career, why?

Schilling is a no brainer HOFer. He also happens to be a loud mouth, but based on his play he belongs and if we are all being honest is pretty obvious.

ejharrington · #14 11-10-2022, 08:31 PM

Schilling checks all the boxes for being a HOFer.

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