Casey Stengel and Dave Roberts...

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by rats60

From 1953-1960 Whitey Ford finished no lower than 8th in ERA, ranging from 2.01 to 3.06. In 1960 Ford finished 5th in ERA. At that point, Ford's career post season ERA was 2.81. Ford was absolutely the ace of the staff. He had consistently been an elite pitcher. He should have started game 1. Ditmar at that point had two good seasons, which would be his only two. You don't start someone like that over Whitey Ford.

Stengel started Whitey Ford in game 1 in 1955, 1956, 1957 and 1958. After Stengel was replaced by Ralph Houk, Houk started Whitey Ford in game 1 in 1961, 1962, 1963 and 1964. It is not hindsight to say it was a mistake to not start Ford in game 1.

Stengel wasn't replaced only because he mismanaged the 1960 World Series. The Yankees owners were upset with Stengel back to 1957. He was observed falling asleep during games. His players were partying too much, including a fight at the Copacabana that resulted in Hank Bauer being arrested. Stengel would have been let go in 1958 if the Yankees didn't come back to win the World Series. Not winning in 1959 & 1960 made it easy to move on to Ralph Houk, who led the Yankees to Championships in 1961 & 1962.

As I said before "I don't disagree that the pundits and world-renown baseball experts in New York to this day blame Stengel for not starting Ford in Game 1. I do disagree with the logic that it was the reason Pittsburgh won the Series."

No one says Ford could not or should not have started Game 1. It is simply not even close to a given that it would have made the Yankees winners of the Series. It also shifts blame from a pathetic bullpen effort in game 7 that coughed up a three-run lead with six outs to go. Actually more than coughed it up-- surrendering 5 to the Bucs in the 8th and requiring the offense to come back for it to even get to the bottom of the 9th.

You are correct that Stengel's fate was not determined by that loss-- the parties had been coy about his future before the Series even started, given his age. Houk was hired because he was basically offered the Tigers job and was going out the door if the Yankees didn't act, although that doesn't mean Stengel would have stuck around otherwise. And no doubt Yankee upper management was demanding and unrealistic in expecting annual World Series championships, much like now. See Exhibit "A"-- Yogi Berra. Thanks for the 99 wins in '64 as a rookie skipper Yogi, but losing to Gibson and the Cardinals in seven is inexcusable. You're fired. (Probably because he didn't pitch Whitey in that game 7, even though Ford had pitched the opener and got torched).

As for the notion that Yankee player partying was a factor, I doubt it. If so, Houk and followers did no better, at least if you believe Jim Bouton's tales of Mickey, Whitey et. al's activities in the 60s.