Who is the greatest player of all time by position?

[rats60]

RHP Walter Johnson
LHP Sandy Koufax
C Johnny Bench
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Rogers Hornsby
3B Mike Schmidt
SS Honus Wagner
LF Babe Ruth
CF Willie Mays
RF Roberto Clemente

[Rad_Hazard]

Ok, it looks like we are all adding a RHP/LHP split so I'll change mine to reflect that as well as adding a catcher with MLB experience:

RHP - Cy Young - GOAT, his records will never be touched. Dominated two different eras.
LHP - Randy Johnson - I think this one is clear cut.
RP - Mariano Rivera - Not. Even. Close.
C - Mike Piazza - I like him more than Pudge or Bench, he's the greatest hitting catcher of all time.
1B - Lou Gehrig - This one is clear cut.
2B - Rogers Hornsby - This one is clear cut.
SS - Honus Wagner - This one is clear cut.
3B - Mike Schmidt - I would love to say Brett, but it's Schmidt all the way.
LF - Ted Williams - I can see swapping here, but only for Bonds. Cobb can't go here since he was a CF almost exclusively and Mays is better there.
CF - Willie Mays - This one is clear cut.
RF - Babe Ruth - This one is clear cut.

[sthoemke]

Originally Posted by Rad_Hazard

Ok, it looks like we are all adding a RHP/LHP split so I'll change mine to reflect that as well as adding a catcher with MLB experience:

RHP - Cy Young - GOAT, his records will never be touched. Dominated two different eras.
LHP - Randy Johnson - I think this one is clear cut.
RP - Mariano Rivera - Not. Even. Close.
C - Mike Piazza - I like him more than Pudge or Bench, he's the greatest hitting catcher of all time.
1B - Lou Gehrig - This one is clear cut.
2B - Rogers Hornsby - This one is clear cut.
SS - Honus Wagner - This one is clear cut.
3B - Mike Schmidt - I would love to say Brett, but it's Schmidt all the way.
LF - Ted Williams - I can see swapping here, but only for Bonds. Cobb can't go here since he was a CF almost exclusively and Mays is better there.
CF - Willie Mays - This one is clear cut.
RF - Babe Ruth - This one is clear cut.

How about adding a "bat-right/throws-left" split, and Rickey Henderson can take that spot in left field.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by sthoemke

How about adding a "bat-right/throws-left" split, and Rickey Henderson can take that spot in left field.

Haha! I love it! Rickey was so amazing to watch.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rad_Hazard

Ok, it looks like we are all adding a RHP/LHP split so I'll change mine to reflect that as well as adding a catcher with MLB experience:

RHP - Cy Young - GOAT, his records will never be touched. Dominated two different eras.
LHP - Randy Johnson - I think this one is clear cut.
RP - Mariano Rivera - Not. Even. Close.
C - Mike Piazza - I like him more than Pudge or Bench, he's the greatest hitting catcher of all time.
1B - Lou Gehrig - This one is clear cut.
2B - Rogers Hornsby - This one is clear cut.
SS - Honus Wagner - This one is clear cut.
3B - Mike Schmidt - I would love to say Brett, but it's Schmidt all the way.
LF - Ted Williams - I can see swapping here, but only for Bonds. Cobb can't go here since he was a CF almost exclusively and Mays is better there.
CF - Willie Mays - This one is clear cut.
RF - Babe Ruth - This one is clear cut.

I like this list, but W Johnson or Clemens over Young, and Bench over Piazza.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I like this list, but W Johnson or Clemens over Young, and Bench over Piazza.

I see the arguments for bench and piazza and as a Mets fan I want piazza (if not carter). That said, I give it to yogi all day. His war is oddly low though - doesn’t make sense to me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I see the arguments for bench and piazza and as a Mets fan I want piazza (if not carter). That said, I give it to yogi all day. His war is oddly low though - doesn’t make sense to me.

Carter does great by WAR if I recall, it seemed to overrate him and underrate Yogi a bit. I would rank Bench and Yogi 1-2.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I like this list, but W Johnson or Clemens over Young, and Bench over Piazza.

Thanks! I just can’t get over Cy’s records which is why I think he is my RHP. Also I’m a big Mets fan so that does come in to play with Piazza, but his offense just dwarfs other catchers so that’s how I rationalize the pick.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rad_Hazard

Thanks! I just can’t get over Cy’s records which is why I think he is my RHP. Also I’m a big Mets fan so that does come in to play with Piazza, but his offense just dwarfs other catchers so that’s how I rationalize the pick.

Walter Johnson's metrics dwarf Cys.

Bench, Piazza and Fisk are virtually tied in oWAR, Piazza's offense does not dwarf Bench's.

[isiahfan]

Not having ARod on your lists....I will happily take him over just about any infielder let alone SS or 3B

tsk tsk

[G1911]

Originally Posted by isiahfan

Not having ARod on your lists....I will happily take him over just about any infielder let alone SS or 3B

tsk tsk

Wagner fares better than Rodriguez in the modern metrics (like WAR, OPS+), even with them being designed around the modern game. Also, he wasn’t on performance enhancing drugs his whole career. I have a hard time taking Rodriguez over him when his drug adjusted totals are pretty close but not even better than Wagner who did it honestly.

If you put Rodriguez at 3B he probably comes out #1 if you ignore the steroids.

I see why one would pick him, but I don’t see why it’s surprising others don’t.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Walter Johnson's metrics dwarf Cys.

Bench, Piazza and Fisk are virtually tied in oWAR, Piazza's offense does not dwarf Bench's.

You are absolutely right about the Big Train, I formally change Cy to Walter.

As for catchers though, I stand by my Piazza choice, his offensive stats don't exactly dwarf Bench's, but they are quite a bit better. Piazza's slash line destroys that of Bench. Piazza was easily the greatest hitting catcher of all time, so it comes down to the glove.

Here are the offensive and defensive stats and Bench shines in throwing runners out and Total Fielding Runs Above Average (Piazza's is terrible), but Piazza beats them all in range (he was underrated on defense, although not exactly great). Very interesting stuff. I would definitely put Piazza as the GOAT at the catching position, especially after seeing these comparisons.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's a reasonable choice. But given the importance of defense at that position, I would give the advantage to Bench, and I might even take I Rod Berra and Carter over him.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Rad_Hazard

You are absolutely right about the Big Train, I formally change Cy to Walter.

As for catchers though, I stand by my Piazza choice, his offensive stats don't exactly dwarf Bench's, but they are quite a bit better. Piazza's slash line destroys that of Bench. Piazza was easily the greatest hitting catcher of all time, so it comes down to the glove.

Here are the offensive and defensive stats and Bench shines in throwing runners out and Total Fielding Runs Above Average (Piazza's is terrible), but Piazza beats them all in range (he was underrated on defense, although not exactly great). Very interesting stuff. I would definitely put Piazza as the GOAT at the catching position, especially after seeing these comparisons.

Yeah, I agree Piazza was a bit underrated on defense. He actually had a career positive defensive WAR (albeit slightly)

But overall, I think it's hard to go with anyone but Johnny Bench or Josh Gibson.

I do want to give a shout out to Campanella though. I think his peak was really strong, and he is the All-Time leader in % throwing out would-be base-stealers and an unbelievable 57.4%

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by rats60

RHP Walter Johnson
LHP Sandy Koufax
C Johnny Bench
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Rogers Hornsby
3B Mike Schmidt
SS Honus Wagner
LF Babe Ruth
CF Willie Mays
RF Roberto Clemente

Great list