ROGER MARIS vs AARON JUDGE

bobsbbcards · #1 08-30-2022, 07:46 AM

I�m sure there�s some mention of Maris� feat in Cooperstown. It ranks up there with every other OMG season that�s been achieved by a better-than-average player, but that isn�t enough to get someone�s entire career enshrined with a plaque (IMHO).

packs · #2 08-30-2022, 08:18 AM

What about Jack Chesbro on the pitching side? His claim to fame is his insane 41 win season. Outside of his 41 win season his career is pretty mild compared to his contemporaries. Not even 200 wins. A 110 ERA+.

Hard to see him getting any serious consideration or induction without his single out of this world season on the mound. His 41 win season accounted for more than 20% of his total career wins.

G1911 · #3 08-30-2022, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

What about Jack Chesbro on the pitching side? His claim to fame is his insane 41 win season. Outside of his 41 win season his career is pretty mild compared to his contemporaries. Not even 200 wins. A 110 ERA+.

Hard to see him getting any serious consideration or induction without his single out of this world season on the mound. His 41 win season accounted for more than 20% of his total career wins.

I would say same category. Like Hack (who held 4 home run crowns) and Roger (who won another MVP) he wasn�t a one trick pony, he had other star seasons like 1901, 1902 and 1905, but without that one marquee year he wouldn�t be sniffing Cooperstown.

Dizzy Dean is close to this. He was great for 3 or 4 years. Take 1 of them out and they probably couldn�t have justified him. He�s pushing it as is.

packs · #4 08-30-2022, 01:21 PM

I guess I'm pointing these players out because I think Roger's exclusion boils down to BS.

Hitting 61 home runs and setting the single season home run mark was a legendary feat, far greater in the context of baseball than driving in the most runs or winning 40 games as a pitcher. Yet he has been chosen for exclusion and I would say it's mostly because his chase didn't make him a popular guy. People actively rooted against him. Sent him death threats. Wanted him to fail.

I would put it out there that Roger Maris is a casualty of circumstance in that he was after Babe Ruth, the one guy you don't show up.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 08-30-2022, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I guess I'm pointing these players out because I think Roger's exclusion boils down to BS.

Hitting 61 home runs and setting the single season home run mark was a legendary feat, far greater in the context of baseball than driving in the most runs or winning 40 games as a pitcher. Yet he has been chosen for exclusion and I would say it's mostly because his chase didn't make him a popular guy. People actively rooted against him. Sent him death threats. Wanted him to fail.

I would put it out there that Roger Maris is a casualty of circumstance in that he was after Babe Ruth, the one guy you don't show up.

Deep into the 61 season Mantle was still very much in the chase. I was not yet aware of baseball, were people rooting against him too?

packs · #6 08-30-2022, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Deep into the 61 season Mantle was still very much in the chase. I was not yet aware of baseball, were people rooting against him too?

Not to the same degree. Mantle was the hometown hero. He'd been on the Yankees for a decade already. Maris had just gotten there and despite winning MVP, I don't hear too many people talk about Maris as their favorite Yankee.

To further demonstrate how much the house stacked against Maris and wanted to down play everything about what he was doing, the commissioner actually released a statement right around the all star break that down played any accomplishment associated with a potential home run chase unless it was done in 154 games.

For whatever reason, the public, the press, even the commissioner of baseball, was against Roger Maris in every way.

I think a common opinion expressed in the press at the time was something along the lines of "if someone's going to break Ruth's record, it should be Mantle."

Peter_Spaeth · #7 08-30-2022, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Not to the same degree. Mantle was the hometown hero. He'd been on the Yankees for a decade already. Maris had just gotten there and despite winning MVP, I don't hear too many people talk about Maris as their favorite Yankee.

To further demonstrate how much the house stacked against Maris and wanted to down play everything about what he was doing, the commissioner actually released a statement right around the all star break that down played any accomplishment associated with a potential home run chase unless it was done in 154 games.

For whatever reason, the public, the press, even the commissioner of baseball, was against Roger Maris in every way.

I think a common opinion expressed in the press at the time was something along the lines of "if someone's going to break Ruth's record, it should be Mantle."

Imagine what Henry Aaron went through. Maris, at least, was white.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 08-30-2022, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

What about Jack Chesbro on the pitching side? His claim to fame is his insane 41 win season. Outside of his 41 win season his career is pretty mild compared to his contemporaries. Not even 200 wins. A 110 ERA+.

Hard to see him getting any serious consideration or induction without his single out of this world season on the mound. His 41 win season accounted for more than 20% of his total career wins.

Ed Walsh won fewer than 200 as well.

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