Biggest MVP snubs ever

[G1911]

Every single one given to a reliever. They simply do not play enough to be the most valuable player in the league, and it has been a complete joke every time it has happened.

Willie Hernandez finishing 1st (Quisenberry was 3rd) in 1984, Fingers in 1981, Eckersley in 1992, etc.

There's no real argument that any of these guys were the best player in their leagues that year.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by G1911

Every single one given to a reliever. They simply do not play enough to be the most valuable player in the league, and it has been a complete joke every time it has happened.

Willie Hernandez finishing 1st (Quisenberry was 3rd) in 1984, Fingers in 1981, Eckersley in 1992, etc.

There's no real argument that any of these guys were the best player in their leagues that year.

Agreed. I think the Eckersley's win in '92 was particularly troublesome because not only was he not the best player (I think Kirby Puckett who had a 7.1 WAR was), but he wasn't even close to the best pitcher. Roger Clemens was 18-11 with a 2.41 ERA and a 1.074 WHIP and had a WAR of 8.7 compared to Eckersley's 2.9.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Agreed. I think the Eckersley's win in '92 was particularly troublesome because not only was he not the best player (I think Kirby Puckett who had a 7.1 WAR was), but he wasn't even close to the best pitcher. Roger Clemens was 18-11 with a 2.41 ERA and a 1.074 WHIP and had a WAR of 8.7 compared to Eckersley's 2.9.

Does anyone have a good source for highest single season WAR for a reliever? I'm curious how Eck's 1992 compared to others in the modern relief era (say, post '86). Obviously, the high IP "firemen" of the late 70' and early 80's had higher WAR seasons, but in the "closers throw one inning" era, is 2.9 especially good?

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Does anyone have a good source for highest single season WAR for a reliever? I'm curious how Eck's 1992 compared to others in the modern relief era (say, post '86). Obviously, the high IP "firemen" of the late 70' and early 80's had higher WAR seasons, but in the "closers throw one inning" era, is 2.9 especially good?

A few top WAR seasons for relievers in the last 50 years. Not sure exactly which were closers throwing one inning years....

Goose Gossage 8.2 in 1975, 6.0 in 1977, 4.5 in 1982, 3.5 in 1983, 3.4 in 1980, 3.2 in 1978

Mark Eichorn 7.6 in 1986

Bruce Sutter 6.5 in 1977, 4.9 in 1979, 4.5 in 1984

Dan Quisenberry 5.5 in 1983, 4.2 in 1985, 3.3 in 1982 and 1984

Greg Minton 5.4 in 1982

Mariano Rivera 5.0 in 1996, 4.3 in 2008, 4.2 in 2004, 4.0 in 2005, 3.9 in 2006, 3.7 in 1997, 3.6 in both 2003 and 2009, 3.5 in 1999, 3.4 in 2001

Willie Hernandez 4.8 in 1984 (MVP)

Lee Smith 4.8 in 1983, 3.2 in 1986

Jeff Montgomery 4.6 in 1989, 4.4 in 1993

Keith Foulke 4.5 in 1999, 3.7 in 2001, 3.5 in 2003 and 2004, 3.0 in 2000

Mark Davis 4.4 in 1989, 3.1 in 1988

Bill Caudill 4.4 in 1982

bob James 4.3 in 1985

Rollie Fingers 4.2 in 1981 (MVP), 3.8 in 1976

John Wetteland 4.2 in 1993

Trevor Hoffman 4.1 in 1998, 3.9 in 1996, 3.1 in 1997

Roberto Hernandez 4.1 in 1996

Tom Gordon 4.0 in 2004, 3.0 in 2005

Byung-Hyun Kim 4.0 in 2002, 3.1 in 2001

Mike Marshall 4.0 in 1972, 3.1 in 1974, 3.0 in 1973 and 1978

J.J. Putz 4.0 in 2007

Joe Nathan 3.9 in 2004, 3.3 in 2006 and 2008, 3.2 in 2013, 3.0 in 2009

Jose Mesa 3.9 in 1995

Billy Wagner 3.8 in 1999, and 3.5 in 1990

Dave Righetti 3.8 in 1986, 3.3 in 1984

Jesse Orosco 3.8 in 1983

Brad Lidge 3.8 in 2004

Francisco Rodriguez 3.7 in 2006, 3.3 in 2004

Eric Gagne 3.7 in 2003

Craig Kimbrel 3.6 in 2017, 3.2 in 2012, 3.1 in 2013

Jeff Shaw 3.6 in 1997, 3.3 in 1996

Jeff Brantley 3.6 in 1990

Jeff Reardon 3.5 in 1982

Bobby Thigpen 3.5 in 1990

Tom Henke 3.4 in 1989, 3.3 in 1987, 3.0 in 1990

Armando Benítez 3.4 in 2004, 3.3 in 1999

Robb Nen 3.4 in 1998

Dennis Eckersley 3.3 in 1990, 2.9 in 1992 (MVP)

John Smoltz 3.3 in 2003

Al Holland 3.3 in 1983

Heath Bell 3.3 in 2007

Doug Jones 3.2 in 1988, 3.0 1997

Todd Worrell 3.2 in 1987

Randy Myers 3.1 in 1990 and 1997

Edwin Diaz 3.1 in 2018

So Dennis Eckersly's 2.9 during his MVP season doesn't really standout--it wasn't even his best WAR as relief pitcher.

The highest Mariano ever finished in MVP was 9th (2004 and 2005) and he never won a Cy Young.

[Mike D.]

Thanks Charles. I can see a closer winning Cy Young in a year without a standout starter (although there will almost surely be a starter who compiled more WAR than a reliever), but winning MVP when there are viable candidates does seem a bit odd.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Thanks Charles. I can see a closer winning Cy Young in a year without a standout starter (although there will almost surely be a starter who compiled more WAR than a reliever), but winning MVP when there are viable candidates does seem a bit odd.

Yeah, its been a while since a reliever won a Cy Young--Eric Gagne back in 2003--and there have only been 9 Cy Youngs in total for relief pitchers.

Who knows, maybe if Sandy Alcantrana and a few other starters shit the bed down the stretch they'll give it to Edwin Diaz in the NL this year. Highly unlikely though

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Does anyone have a good source for highest single season WAR for a reliever? I'm curious how Eck's 1992 compared to others in the modern relief era (say, post '86). Obviously, the high IP "firemen" of the late 70' and early 80's had higher WAR seasons, but in the "closers throw one inning" era, is 2.9 especially good?

Gossage put up some insane numbers in the 6 range if I recall

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by G1911

Every single one given to a reliever. They simply do not play enough to be the most valuable player in the league, and it has been a complete joke every time it has happened.

Willie Hernandez finishing 1st (Quisenberry was 3rd) in 1984, Fingers in 1981, Eckersley in 1992, etc.

There's no real argument that any of these guys were the best player in their leagues that year.

I agree with you for the most part, however Doctor Mike Marshall and Rivera may have been exceptions...


Probably the biggest snubs would be those who played at a time when nobody was allowed to win more than one MVP (how stupid)...the Babe definitely comes to mind.

.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I agree with you for the most part, however Doctor Mike Marshall and Rivera may have been exceptions...


Probably the biggest snubs would be those who played at a time when nobody was allowed to win more than one MVP (how stupid)...the Babe definitely comes to mind.

.

There has always been the debate on whether Most Valuable Player meant best player. Sometimes it's easy when the best player is on the most successful team. Either way, it's up to the individual voters definition. It always cranked me when one would say something like they didn't vote for X because "His team didn't make the playoffs", when X had a better year and his team wouldn't have even sniffed the playoffs without X.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I agree with you for the most part, however Doctor Mike Marshall and Rivera may have been exceptions...


Probably the biggest snubs would be those who played at a time when nobody was allowed to win more than one MVP (how stupid)...the Babe definitely comes to mind.

.

Neither one won an MVP, though a reliever who throws over 200 innings I wouldn't have such a problem with as I do guys like Willie Hernandez.

[canjond]

Jeter losing in '06 to Justin Morneau

[Carter08]

Slightly different MVP award but Gary Carter should have won the 1986 WS MVP and it shouldn’t have been particularly close. Hats off to Ray Knight but the Kid was robbed.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Slightly different MVP award but Gary Carter should have won the 1986 WS MVP and it shouldn’t have been particularly close. Hats off to Ray Knight but the Kid was robbed.

Gary Carter may have been robbed of the '82 NL MVP too. He won the Gold Gold and Silver Slugger award with a .293 BA, slugged .510 (6th best) with 29 home runs (7th best) and led the League in WAR with 8.6. Yet he finished 12th in the vote.

The second highest WAR belonged to Andre Dawson (7.9) and he finished all the way back at 21st in the voting.

Dale Murphy won the MVP--he had a great year--36 HRs, and a league leading 109 RBI, but his WAR was only 6.1.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Gary Carter may have been robbed of the '82 NL MVP too. He won the Gold Gold and Silver Slugger award with a .293 BA, slugged .510 (6th best) with 29 home runs (7th best) and led the League in WAR with 8.6. Yet he finished 12th in the vote.

The second highest WAR belonged to Andre Dawson (7.9) and he finished all the way back at 21st in the voting.

Dale Murphy won the MVP--he had a great year--36 HRs, and a league leading 109 RBI, but his WAR was only 6.1.

I’m convinced. Nicely done.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Gary Carter may have been robbed of the '82 NL MVP too. He won the Gold Gold and Silver Slugger award with a .293 BA, slugged .510 (6th best) with 29 home runs (7th best) and led the League in WAR with 8.6. Yet he finished 12th in the vote.

The second highest WAR belonged to Andre Dawson (7.9) and he finished all the way back at 21st in the voting.

Dale Murphy won the MVP--he had a great year--36 HRs, and a league leading 109 RBI, but his WAR was only 6.1.

Sadly I do not believe Gary Carter was robbed of the NL MVP award. And you cannot only use WAR as the Stat. Dale had a great year as did Carter.
For 1 Gary Carter place 12th in voting (not 2 or 3 and not close)
Dale Murphy got 14 First place votes and Carter got 0.
Dale Murphy 36 HR, 109 RBI, and 113 Runs
Gary Carter 29 HR , 97 RBI , and 91 Runs

So hard to accept he got robbed when Dale had better stats, more 1st place voted (to no first place votes) and 11 other players were deemed more valuable that year than him

[KJA]

Originally Posted by G1911

Every single one given to a reliever. They simply do not play enough to be the most valuable player in the league, and it has been a complete joke every time it has happened.

Willie Hernandez finishing 1st (Quisenberry was 3rd) in 1984, Fingers in 1981, Eckersley in 1992, etc.

There's no real argument that any of these guys were the best player in their leagues that year.

Was just looking at 1984, and I think even the runner-up was even questionable with Hrbek getting second place. Eddie Murray and Mattingly had great seasons in 84 but finished 4th and 5th in the voting.

[tod41]

George Brett should have been a 3 time MVP. He deserved the award in 76 and 85. Munson got it in 76 and Mattingly in 85. Mattingly should have won in 86.