Sam Thompson value

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Keith H. Thompson

that we have yet to learn of any provenance, and we should, to help in establishing the origin of this "portrait." Sam Thompson is a dead on target for forgers, and I could cite several examples where genuine, period items have been elaborately embellished with purported inscriptions and successfully sold in four figures at auction. To be more blunt, who is to say that this is a portrait of Sam Thompson? I still feel that the pictorial evidence that I see points to a Mareska family origin, but so what ...

I don't know either but the ears, usually a telltale sign, don't look to be the same.
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[Joe_G.]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't know either but the ears, usually a telltale sign, don't look to be the same.

I'd agree if this were a photo however since it is a painting, perhaps based on Sam sitting for the portrait, the accuracy of such details may be lacking or even purposely inaccurate for sake of completing quickly or even desire to change ears, nose, etc. In low confidence I do believe it to be a portrait of Sam with a decent but far from perfect likeness. I totally agree with Frank & Keith. For me, the main question is whether this is an authentic painting dating to late 19th century.

This painting will realize far more if the seller/consignor/auction house seeks professional opinion on date. Maybe you cannot piece together provenance but knowing the painting dates to late nineteenth to early twentieth century and hasn't been touched up (confirm the Dauvray Cup pendant isn't a late add) would help those with interest to offer or bid higher sums of money in confidence. It would certainly impact any offer I would make.

[RCMcKenzie]

The Kreindler piece is really nice. Along the lines of what Eddie is saying, you should gather more information from the seller. Where did he find it?

It helps a great deal to have a reputable venue vouch for the piece. If it were in Dumouchelles or HA, they could say "19th Century portrait, quite possibly so-and-so." etc Selling with a major art dealer creates provenance. Good luck with it.

[joed25]

The seller doesn’t know the artist or the provenance. He bought it many years ago at Brimfield. He’s a local guy I know and I don’t think he is trying to scam anyone. Thanks for all the help.

[RCMcKenzie]

Just my thoughts on the artwork, I don't think it's a forgery or a fake. It's pretty nice, but the value is as a sports collectible. I have no idea what it may sell for in a sports auction.

Maybe not an exact comp and non-sports, but here is a portrait of John Rennie the Younger, who took his Dad's plans and built the London Bridge.

www.liveauctioneers.com/item/131508185

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by joed25

The seller doesn’t know the artist or the provenance. He bought it many years ago at Brimfield. He’s a local guy I know and I don’t think he is trying to scam anyone. Thanks for all the help.

In its current condition I would value it at $250. Nice piece if it gets cleaned up.

[JustinD]

I would think the BO idea is the best idea possible for any sale. As an avid art and card collector, I certainly do not mean this insultingly to the seller but as an honest opinion. The 75k is most certainly a pipe dream with zero provenance. I see no artist signature on the front or rear, it also looks like it has been removed from the frame so assume no signature was found on the edge of the canvas. Without locating the artist info to help with dating and having it examined professionally to see if the medal was added it’s a leap of faith.

With no info and the current condition I would leap on anything that comes close to a tenth of that but fear it will even join the eBay museum at that price point. With no provenance it becomes a very limited and tiny market, but I hope it finds a great home.

[Keith H. Thompson]

loses a lot of credibility to learn that "the seller picked it up at Brimfield." That would not be impossible or even improbable, but to identify the subject as Sam Thompson is a reach. I know for certain that the painting was not among the many items that my father received from Aunt Ida's caretaker upon her death. I further believe that if the painting had anything to do with Sam and Ida, it would have been kept in the family as so many other relics were.

I have, or have access to, many contemporary portrait cabinet cards of Sam, including N173s, that reveal his attire and facial features of the moment. To me, there is nothing about the painting's subject that uniquely identifies him as Sam Thompson.

The pictorial evidence of the painting that we see, and even the provenance itself, point to a genuine 19th century artifact, but I'm going to float the idea that the subject is another player from the Detroit 1887 team?