Sam Thompson value

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by EddieP

There is chipping paint and it looks like a smoker use to owned it. There appears to be white paint on the frame. Whatever the value , restoration/ cleaning/ framing costs should be negotiated into the price. Unless the subject is a person of historical significance, it is the Artist, Provenance , and date ( in that order) that is the key to the value of the portrait .

That is not white paint. The frame is plaster over wood covered with gold paint. Very common style of frame Late 1800's to early 1900's. My wife has a number of similar frames on paintings in storage. These can be restored using the opposite side of the frame and creating a mirror mold to shape the plaster for the missing plaster such as in the lower frame face at the bevel. The sides are easier as it is a continuous simple rounded edge.

I don't see how you can assume that this was owned by a smoker. Paintings can darken without the presence of cigar/pipe or cigarette smoke. There is damage to the canvas in the upper left quadrant that looks like water damage from the back.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by Michael B

That is not white paint. The frame is plaster over wood covered with gold paint. Very common style of frame Late 1800's to early 1900's. My wife has a number of similar frames on paintings in storage. These can be restored using the opposite side of the frame and creating a mirror mold to shape the plaster for the missing plaster such as in the lower frame face at the bevel. The sides are easier as it is a continuous simple rounded edge.

I don't see how you can assume that this was owned by a smoker. Paintings can darken without the presence of cigar/pipe or cigarette smoke. There is damage to the canvas in the upper left quadrant that looks like water damage from the back.

Can’t really tell if it’s wood without lifting it or examining in person. Regardless if it’s smoke, soot etc , we are in agreement that painting not in the best of shape and it will affect the cost. Right?

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by EddieP

Can’t really tell if it’s wood without lifting it or examining in person. Regardless if it’s smoke, soot etc , we are in agreement that painting not in the best of shape and it will affect the cost. Right?

Agreed, there are a few spots where it appears there is paint missing. Yes it is wood under the plaster. As mentioned, my wife owns more than a few framed paintings with this style of frame. I have hung, packed and moved them multiple times so I am familiar with these.

[joed25]

The seller is asking $75,000. Does that seem like a crazy price for this? I’m sorry I don’t have more details about the history.

[Webster]

Is there any information/writing/labeling/trademarks on the back?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by joed25

The seller is asking $75,000. Does that seem like a crazy price for this? I’m sorry I don’t have more details about the history.

Without provenance that seems like a very high ask.

[mrreality68]

It is an amazing piece.
The price may or may not be alot.
For that potential price you need alot more information as others mentioned especially the Providence.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by joed25

The seller is asking $75,000. Does that seem like a crazy price for this? I’m sorry I don’t have more details about the history.

This is just my opinion:

Unknown artist, unknown provenance, and alot of work needed to restore it . $75,000 is way too much.
For all you know, he could have bought it at a yard sale, had someone paint the Dauvray Cup Medal on it and then claim it’s a portrait of some obscure Hall of Famer. Also even if you know the artist and the provenance at that price , it would behoove you to find someone who could examine the painting in person and give you an appraisal.

There’s a museum in Detroit with a sizeable baseball card collection. You may want to contact them and ask if they know anything about this painting and/or know anyone who can appraise this for you.

If you think you can do this by yourself, Here’s some advice (and you can take it worth a grain of salt): Think of all the bad eggs in our hobby. Multiply that number by 2000 and it’ll still underestimate the amount of fraudsters in the art world.

[FrankWakefield]

+1 what Eddie said.

Do you have a closeup photo of the pin in his shirt directly under his tie? I ask to see about the detail in which the pin is painted. After looking at the images, it occurred to me that the medal pinned to the jacket is subliminally prominent, as is the detail on it. If someone was going to forge such a painting, then putting something in the painting tying it to that Detroit team would key to getting a baseball collector interested. Without similar detail on the pin, then I'd infer that the 'extra detail' on the medal was intentional, a collector would be wanting to see that.

It reminds me of paintings found in courthouses depicting judges and such. after his playing days Thompson was a US Marshal, and he served as a bailiff in the federal courts there in Detroit. The painting could have been done in the early 1900s just as easily as thinking it was from 1887 or 1888. Are there similar paintings somewhere of other players from that team? It could have been painted later from a photo...

Asking about that portrait here was a good first step, but I think you need several more steps and obtain solid provenance before buying that. And it partly depends on how dear $75k is to you, how fanatical you are about Detroit baseball, and how driven you are in collecting stuff of 19th century Hall of Fame players. I wish you well with your research.

[joed25]

Here is a photo of the back. I really appreciate everyone who took time to respond to my questions. You guys are the greatest!