Future National Locations - Same Old Story

[chriskim]

Vegas Baby!

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by chriskim

Vegas Baby!

Aside from space, not sure if this was said already, but the unions involved at some of the proposed venues were supposedly making it cost prohibitive. Not sure that was an excuse though.

Vegas would be awesome!

[Alexcards]

I never skip a National, but I'm not going to AC, decided to go to the Philly Show in September instead..... Chicago and Cleveland are great locations. I setup at the Culture Collision show in Atlanta this year and it was very well attended by both dealers and and patrons. It was run by a new group and I think they hit a Home Run.

[npa589]

Without reading any previous comments, I have long believed that if the National came to West Palm Beach, FL, it might never leave.

There is a beautiful convention center in downtown West Palm, surrounded by hotels, and across the street from Ruth Chris, and a myriad of other restaurant and shopping options (Rosemary Square). That doesn't even include Clematis street, which is just a tiny bit further, and triples your options for post card-geeking enjoyment. It's also a 4 minute walk from the intracoastal, and 15-20 minute walk (5 minute drive) to the Atlantic Ocean. There are also a couple churches nearby if you're feeling religious.

It's a straight shot from Belvedere to 95 to Okeechobee, or Belvedere to Dixie to Okeechobee. You have the Brightline train that quickly can take you to Miami and back as well. Need I say more?

:-)

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by npa589

Without reading any previous comments, I have long believed that if the National came to West Palm Beach, FL, it might never leave.

There is a beautiful convention center in downtown West Palm, surrounded by hotels, and across the street from Ruth Chris, and a myriad of other restaurant and shopping options (Rosemary Square). That doesn't even include Clematis street, which is just a tiny bit further, and triples your options for post card-geeking enjoyment. It's also a 4 minute walk from the intracoastal, and 15-20 minute walk (5 minute drive) to the Atlantic Ocean. There are also a couple churches nearby if you're feeling religious.

It's a straight shot from Belvedere to 95 to Okeechobee, or Belvedere to Dixie to Okeechobee. You have the Brightline train that quickly can take you to Miami and back as well. Need I say more?

:-)

Wow looks amazing !!! I'm down for West Palm Beach Close to SGC no reason for them not to grade on-site there.

[npa589]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Wow looks amazing !!! I'm down for West Palm Beach Close to SGC no reason for them not to grade on-site there.

Didn't even think to mention SGC...haha!

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

The desire for more geographical options for the National seems like a great business opportunity for someone. someone? anyone?

[conor912]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

The desire for more geographical options for the National seems like a great business opportunity for someone. someone? anyone?

This show is having it’s debut event next month. It looks promising. I know the owners would ultimately like to move it around the country.

https://www.worldsofsport.com/

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by npa589

Didn't even think to mention SGC...haha!

Dont feel bad, hardly worth it

[55koufax]

WILL NEVER HAPPEN until the state figures this out. If two of the largest tourist areas in the state (SF and SM) are this unsafe, why would any major convention come here?

According to FBI crime statistics assembled and analyzed by Safewise, a website for safety consultation, Santa Monica is one of the least safe cities in California.

This report was released on March 8, along with reports for many other states, which uses the data of the numbers of violent and property crimes that were reported by cities and towns to the FBI and computes the rates of crimes per 1000 residents in each municipal area.

Santa Monica’s rate is six violent crimes and 42.6 property crimes per 1,000 residents. This places the city at number 224 in the list of 230 municipalities. This places Santa Monica just below San Francisco. The only other cities that have a higher average rate are Compton at 225, Richmond at 226, Stockton at 227, and Oakland at 230, which are all in Northern California. In Southern California, Compton is at 225 and San Bernardino is at 229.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

WILL NEVER HAPPEN until the state figures this out. If two of the largest tourist areas in the state (SF and SM) are this unsafe, why would any major convention come here?

According to FBI crime statistics assembled and analyzed by Safewise, a website for safety consultation, Santa Monica is one of the least safe cities in California.

This report was released on March 8, along with reports for many other states, which uses the data of the numbers of violent and property crimes that were reported by cities and towns to the FBI and computes the rates of crimes per 1000 residents in each municipal area.

Santa Monica’s rate is six violent crimes and 42.6 property crimes per 1,000 residents. This places the city at number 224 in the list of 230 municipalities. This places Santa Monica just below San Francisco. The only other cities that have a higher average rate are Compton at 225, Richmond at 226, Stockton at 227, and Oakland at 230, which are all in Northern California. In Southern California, Compton is at 225 and San Bernardino is at 229.

Out of curiosity, where were Chicago, Cleveland, and Atlantic City on that list, assuming they were included as well?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

WILL NEVER HAPPEN until the state figures this out. If two of the largest tourist areas in the state (SF and SM) are this unsafe, why would any major convention come here?

According to FBI crime statistics assembled and analyzed by Safewise, a website for safety consultation, Santa Monica is one of the least safe cities in California.

This report was released on March 8, along with reports for many other states, which uses the data of the numbers of violent and property crimes that were reported by cities and towns to the FBI and computes the rates of crimes per 1000 residents in each municipal area.

Santa Monica’s rate is six violent crimes and 42.6 property crimes per 1,000 residents. This places the city at number 224 in the list of 230 municipalities. This places Santa Monica just below San Francisco. The only other cities that have a higher average rate are Compton at 225, Richmond at 226, Stockton at 227, and Oakland at 230, which are all in Northern California. In Southern California, Compton is at 225 and San Bernardino is at 229.

Umm, might want to open an atlas. Santa Monica is in a different county than Anaheim and 42 miles away. You are doing the equivalent of citing crime stats from Baltimore to prove a point about Washington DC (actually, they are closer). Anaheim's crime stats are right about average with the rest of the country. Atlantic City's crime rate is higher than most of the country and it has one of the highest murder rates. So we have that going for us this summer, which is nice.

We won't have a west coast show because none of the dealers based in the east and who have the most influence on the show's organizers want to hump their stuff over the Rockies and through Death Valley in July in the family minivan.

[Lobo Aullando]

It's a self-sustaining feedback loop.

Did I read something about not missing shows being a way of keeping one's place year after year? If I'm not mis-remembering that detail, then it seems like they could loosen those requirements. I mean, they're fond of bragging that the next year has already sold out during the present year's show.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

We won't have a west coast show because none of the dealers based in the east and who have the most influence on the show's organizers want to hump their stuff over the Rockies and through Death Valley in July in the family minivan.

[Brian Van Horn]

Well, with Cleveland, it would be a new building since they closed the one that the national was held and removed the Ferris wheel.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Well, with Cleveland, it would be a new building since they closed the one that the national was held and removed the Ferris wheel.

No, same building, they're just getting rid of the ferris wheel.

FYI - The ferris wheel was there for roughly 30+ or so years as part of the annual IX Indoor Amusement Park that went on inside the building. It stopped with the Covid pandemic starting in 2020. There is talk of bringing the amusement park back, starting in 2023, but for now the ferris wheel is to be removed as part of renovations being made to the building.

[Exhibitman]

They should replace it with a batting arcade.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

They should replace it with a batting arcade.

Not a bad idea.......and actually quite feasible. The room at the IX Center is immense, and way bigger than any other venue I'm aware of that has ever hosted the National. Anyone who ever attended the National while in Cleveland may remember that the wall opposite to the wall along which all the restaurant/food stands are situated isn't a wall at all, it is a curtain. That is because it simply divides the floor of the IX Center so attendees don't see all the unused space. There should be more than enough room to bring in the equipment needed to set up batting cages if they so desired, and they could likely put in a softball hitting cage/area beside it as well.

In fact, if they wanted to, there is no telling how much bigger and how many more dealers they could easily accommodate at a Cleveland based National if they really wanted to expand it, and that's not even counting the lower floor levels. I think the problem is though, once you do that you can't automatically have all the dealers come back to the following year's National if held anywhere else......there isn't enough room. LOL

[Jewish-collector]

There are many locations/venues that can't host the National for one reason or another:

Some venues are too small and/or don't have enough hotel rooms
Some venues are not convenient to airports
Some venues/cities the union stuff too expensive and/or other legal issues
Some venues charge too much for having events in their building
Some venues/cities are not good baseball and/or sports towns
Some venues don't want it scheduled too far in the future.
etc,... etc,... etc,...

After all of this analysis, it turns out Chicago (and Cleveland before the IX closed) were the only two cities that check all the boxes with the National committee and this is why they were alternating between these two. Now, since the IX reopened, Cleveland may or may not become a regular venue for the show. And, Atlantic City may or may not also be in the discussion. We shall see.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

There are many locations/venues that can't host the National for one reason or another:

Some venues are too small and/or don't have enough hotel rooms
Some venues are not convenient to airports
Some venues/cities the union stuff too expensive and/or other legal issues
Some venues charge too much for having events in their building
Some venues/cities are not good baseball and/or sports towns
Some venues don't want it scheduled too far in the future.
etc,... etc,... etc,...

After all of this analysis, it turns out Chicago (and Cleveland before the IX closed) were the only two cities that check all the boxes with the National committee and this is why they were alternating between these two. Now, since the IX reopened, Cleveland may or may not become a regular venue for the show. And, Atlantic City may or may not also be in the discussion. We shall see.

I believe Tampa would check all the boxes, with the possible exceptions of the first and last. The convention center only has 200K-300K sqft. And the Riverwalk area of downtown is amazing now.

[sb1]

The one item that is the most important factor is the facility cost. They are in this business to make money and that weighs head shoulders above the other factors, all of which also have a part in the decision where to hold the event.

Many of the locations mentioned are cities with first class facilities, but odds are, they want to make good money off their facility.

[Frank A]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

There are many locations/venues that can't host the National for one reason or another:

Some venues are too small and/or don't have enough hotel rooms
Some venues are not convenient to airports
Some venues/cities the union stuff too expensive and/or other legal issues
Some venues charge too much for having events in their building
Some venues/cities are not good baseball and/or sports towns
Some venues don't want it scheduled too far in the future.
etc,... etc,... etc,...

After all of this analysis, it turns out Chicago (and Cleveland before the IX closed) were the only two cities that check all the boxes with the National committee and this is why they were alternating between these two. Now, since the IX reopened, Cleveland may or may not become a regular venue for the show. And, Atlantic City may or may not also be in the discussion. We shall see.

What? Do you work for the National committee. What a bunch of bullshit. There are places all over the country that can host a national quite nicely.

[sb1]

See post above...........

[Jewish-collector]

Originally Posted by Frank A

What? Do you work for the National committee. What a bunch of bullshit. There are places all over the country that can host a national quite nicely.

This is what they have always claimed. I don't agree with them.

[Exhibitman]

Could always be worse:

[jiw98]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Could always be worse:

The area down by the stadiums, casinos, Fox Theater, etc are much improved. A lot of activity down there. That being said, I don't think Detroit could host the national.
And, yes there are also areas in Detroit as shown in your picture. Just like any other large city.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by chriskim

Vegas Baby!

Not opposed to Vegas, but wouldn't be surprised if the dealers were against it. They want attendees spending money with them at the show, not in casinos all day and night losing money. Plus, not sure the costs will be very inexpensive for dealers getting in and out.

[egri]

Originally Posted by BobC

Not opposed to Vegas, but wouldn't be surprised if the dealers were against it. They want attendees spending money with them at the show, not in casinos all day and night losing money. Plus, not sure the costs will be very inexpensive for dealers getting in and out.

Couldn’t the same be said about Atlantic City?

[Vintagedeputy]

I live in Richmond, Va. and spend a lot of time in Virginia Beach, Va.

Both locations have convention centers, plenty of hotels, close-by airports, major highways, minor league baseball, and many non-sports activities for the whole family.

The National needs to spread out: Richmond, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Raleigh, Tampa, Denver, etc. Hit the cities that are not Chicago, Detroit, etc.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I live in Richmond, Va. and spend a lot of time in Virginia Beach, Va.

Both locations have convention centers, plenty of hotels, close-by airports, major highways, minor league baseball, and many non-sports activities for the whole family.

The National needs to spread out: Richmond, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Raleigh, Tampa, Denver, etc. Hit the cities that are not Chicago, Detroit, etc.

Living in Norfolk, I second that!

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I live in Richmond, Va. and spend a lot of time in Virginia Beach, Va.

Both locations have convention centers, plenty of hotels, close-by airports, major highways, minor league baseball, and many non-sports activities for the whole family.

No offense, but I hope you are kidding. Both are way too small. The Richmond convention center is 178k sqft and Virginia Beach is 150k sqft. For comparison, Chicago is 840k, AC is 480k, and Cleveland is >1mm sqft. Baltimore is the smallest in recent history at 300k sqft and that was packed wall to wall.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

No offense, but I hope you are kidding. Both are way too small. The Richmond convention center is 178k sqft and Virginia Beach is 150k sqft. For comparison, Chicago is 840k, AC is 480k, and Cleveland is >1mm sqft. Baltimore is the smallest in recent history at 300k sqft and that was packed wall to wall.

Actually, I’m not.

If there’s a trade off in giving in to a smaller location which then allows the hobby to reach different people with access to things they’ve never seen, I’m all for it.

Nothing says that everything has to be in one building either. Lots of city-wide events are held in different places. The Richmond CC is right next to the downtown Marriott hotel with meeting room space and just blocks away from the AA Flying Squirrels (SF Giants) stadium and Arthur Ashe Rec Center (with 72K square feet of meeting space)….not to mention the Bon Secours (formerly Redskins) Training Center.

Tons of space available around the city that would welcome the National.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Actually, I’m not.

If there’s a trade off in giving in to a smaller location which then allows the hobby to reach different people with access to things they’ve never seen, I’m all for it.

Nothing says that everything has to be in one building either. Lots of city-wide events are held in different places. The Richmond CC is right next to the downtown Marriott hotel with meeting room space and just blocks away from the AA Flying Squirrels (SF Giants) stadium and Arthur Ashe Rec Center (with 72K square feet of meeting space)….not to mention the Bon Secours (formerly Redskins) Training Center.

Tons of space available around the city that would welcome the National.

How do you propose to explain to some dealers there is no room for them at one of these smaller venues then, or that their table space is going to be cut. And how do you pick and choose such decisions among the dealers without ticking anyone off?

And as for the multiple location idea for the show's venue, that can be a logistics nightmare. Instead of just having one or two doors to watch, each different location is now going to require more people to watch who comes and goes. And more people = more costs. And what about dealers who want to be in only the main area, and not buried in some smaller, off-site venue no one really wants to go to. And that's just off the top of my head.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by egri

Couldn’t the same be said about Atlantic City?

Yes, to an extent, but the gambling scene there isn't as prevalent and as well liked as in Vegas anymore. Plus, it is East coast, which is more accessible for a lot of the dealers that attend. Driving/flying inventory all the way to Vegas isn't cheap I'm guessing either. They also have the boardwalk and ocean, so if anyone comes with family and friends, they have something else to occupy their time, not mainly gambling and casinos. And don't forget, Vegas is exceedingly hot that time of the year.

From what I got from those re-posted remarks in the earlier post #68, the dealers have much more say in the location selection than many would think. And assuming the dealers are pretty consistent from year to year, seems to me that to get some more serious consideration for any of these new locations everyone's touting, the trick to doing so may be to replace more East coast/Midwest US dealers with attending dealers from different parts of the country. But if you add say five such new dealers, and they're from Phoenix, Dallas, Denver, Seattle, and LA, they are all over the place and very unlikely to get together to vote for one their own cities/areas as a bloc.