Future National Locations - Same Old Story

[Leon]

Mike spoke at several of the Net54baseball dinners and laid out the reasoning for their venue choices. A lot of things have to be able to work. The size of the venue, the contract being some years out has to be able to be signed, unions, ingress and egress and cost, among the most important, as I remember.
They could still spread it out if they wanted to, imo.
One of my main issues is that tables are sold out for years, last time I checked. That just shouldn't happen.
.

[GasHouseGang]

Maybe we can get Elon Musk to buy the National and move it west.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Maybe we can get Elon Musk to buy the National and move it west.

You mean to Austin, right?

[STL1944]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

You mean to Austin, right?

YES! Austin PLEASE!

[5-Tool Player]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Maybe we can get Elon Musk to buy the National and move it west.

+1

[Johnny630]

I would like to see Dallas, Las Vegas, Tampa...that would be cool.

Sure I'm all for keeping the Regular Spots as Chicago and Cleveland how about every other time a new somewhat different location. Dallas...Vegas...Tampa

[Johnny630]

Arguments have been the logistical reason to include, parking, hotel accommodations size etc. ... we have heard this for over the past 10 years now... why hasn’t there been a solution to figure this out by now. Is it the old guy in the office who says, hey bud face it it’s been this way for years, accept it. Me personally, I Hope we get away from this complacent thinking. How about finding a cool new solution, maybe hire a Logistic Consultant specializing in event location planning..idk.

[Snapolit1]

As an east coaster, I'd love to have a National in California in LA or SF or Anaheim area. Would be great to see games out there at the same time.

How could Vegas not work? Whole freakin' world has conventions in Vegas.

I used to work at a large international firm that has annual partner conference. I realize from speaking to people involved in the process that these things are a lot more complex that many people (including myself) imagine.

Many of you know from business travel that it's frequently cheaper to get a ticket to NY or Chicago than it is to get to Pittsburgh, St. Louis or Iowa City. If airline tickets are prohibitively high that could really cut into attendance.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

As an east coaster, I'd love to have a National in California in LA or SF or Anaheim area. Would be great to see games out there at the same time.

How could Vegas not work? Whole freakin' world has conventions in Vegas.

Personally I can't think of a worse place than California in my mind, but I think Vegas is a great idea and it would really be an event. Also a fan of a Dallas show.

Even south to Tampa or the NC, SC, Virginia area.

[Yoda]

I keep pining for Orlando, Fl. Admitedly, I live in South Florida so am probably prejudiced, but it could easily attract collectors from the S/E as well as TX and OK. It is a hub and the amenities abound, that is if our governor hasn't put out hit contracts on Mickey, Goofy and Donald.
Chicago and Cleveland are too close in proximity, hardly serving a national collector base, while AC is a cess pool, crime, drugs and hookers and logistically tough to reach unless you are driving.
I know Mike wished to draw a cross section of the population by trying to move it around, e,g, Atlanta and wish the present Committee would have a more open mind about the next go round.

[steve B]

Arizona...

Call it cardpocalypse and hold it at the burning man site in the black rock desert. All flea market style.
Table discounts for yellowed toploaders.
Bonus discounts if they have dust in them that goes back to the Reagan administration.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I keep pining for Orlando, Fl. Admitedly, I live in South Florida so am probably prejudiced, but it could easily attract collectors from the S/E as well as TX and OK. It is a hub and the amenities abound, that is if our governor hasn't put out hit contracts on Mickey, Goofy and Donald.
Chicago and Cleveland are too close in proximity, hardly serving a national collector base, while AC is a cess pool, crime, drugs and hookers and logistically tough to reach unless you are driving.
I know Mike wished to draw a cross section of the population by trying to move it around, e,g, Atlanta and wish the present Committee would have a more open mind about the next go round.

I know it was in the 1990's but the 2 Atlanta shows were frankly speaking absolutely terrible

My favorite locations for the NSCC based on being able to attend or deal and have things within walking distance have been

Chicago/Rosemont
St. Louis
Baltimore
Anaheim

San Francisco back in 1987 was not bad on that level

[Casey2296]

Las Vegas seems to be a viable option, they're in the business of hosting conventions. SF is just a sh*t hole now.

[19cbb]

Orlando, please.

Originally Posted by Yoda

I keep pining for Orlando, Fl. Admitedly, I live in South Florida so am probably prejudiced, but it could easily attract collectors from the S/E as well as TX and OK. It is a hub and the amenities abound, that is if our governor hasn't put out hit contracts on Mickey, Goofy and Donald.
Chicago and Cleveland are too close in proximity, hardly serving a national collector base, while AC is a cess pool, crime, drugs and hookers and logistically tough to reach unless you are driving.
I know Mike wished to draw a cross section of the population by trying to move it around, e,g, Atlanta and wish the present Committee would have a more open mind about the next go round.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by 19cbb

Orlando, please.

Definitely no crime, drugs or hookers in South Florida. No sir. Clean as a whistle.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I keep pining for Orlando, Fl. Admitedly, I live in South Florida so am probably prejudiced, but it could easily attract collectors from the S/E as well as TX and OK. It is a hub and the amenities abound, that is if our governor hasn't put out hit contracts on Mickey, Goofy and Donald.
Chicago and Cleveland are too close in proximity, hardly serving a national collector base, while AC is a cess pool, crime, drugs and hookers and logistically tough to reach unless you are driving.
I know Mike wished to draw a cross section of the population by trying to move it around, e,g, Atlanta and wish the present Committee would have a more open mind about the next go round.

I agree, I am in Ft Myers

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Personally I can't think of a worse place than California in my mind, but I think Vegas is a great idea and it would really be an event. Also a fan of a Dallas show.

Even south to Tampa or the NC, SC, Virginia area.

Tampa in February. "The Winter National" Works for me. I will arrange a Net 54 event at the Mons Venus club.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Tampa in February. "The Winter National" Works for me. I will arrange a Net 54 event at the Mons Venus club.

I would go for Tampa too.

[jiw98]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Tampa in February. "The Winter National" Works for me. I will arrange a Net 54 event at the Mons Venus club.

A Winter National in Tampa or even Orlando would be fine with me. I'm sure that I could find some time to go in between rounds.

[notfast]

Chicago is the perfect location. Easy access to hotel, airport, food, entertainment etc.

It should be there annually.

Also, Baltimore will never happen again.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Tampa in February. "The Winter National" Works for me. I will arrange a Net 54 event at the Mons Venus club.

The NHRA might have a problem with that name.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Arguments have been the logistical reason to include, parking, hotel accommodations size etc. ... we have heard this for over the past 10 years now... why hasn’t there been a solution to figure this out by now. Is it the old guy in the office who says, hey bud face it it’s been this way for years, accept it. Me personally, I Hope we get away from this complacent thinking. How about finding a cool new solution, maybe higher a Logistic Consultant specializing in even location planning..idk.

But the counter argument will be. "It ain't broke, why fix it? You want us to sacrifice a known quantity that is amazingly successful for an unknown quantity in the hopes that it will be at least as good?"

[timzcardz]

When it's yours, then you can do what ever you want with it. They must being doing something right. You don't get to 42 by messing up.

And if that's not good enough for you, then why not step right up and start an even bigger and better one, perhaps The Continental Sports Collectors Convention! You could even rotate in Canada and Mexico too.

[nineunder71]

I would feel safer in Russia than Atlantic City

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by nineunder71

I would feel safer in Russia than Atlantic City

Interesting. I've been going to AC for 40 years and never had an incident.

Lots of people are experts on New York City, Atlantic City and even Chicago crime who have either never been there or have been there once 17 years ago.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Interesting. I've been going to AC for 40 years and never had an incident.

Lots of people are experts on New York City, Atlantic City and even Chicago crime who have either never been there or have been there once 17 years ago.

I can say from experience that the most dangerous place in AC is the craps table

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Arguments have been the logistical reason to include, parking, hotel accommodations size etc. ... we have heard this for over the past 10 years now... why hasn’t there been a solution to figure this out by now. Is it the old guy in the office who says, hey bud face it it’s been this way for years, accept it. Me personally, I Hope we get away from this complacent thinking. How about finding a cool new solution, maybe hire a Logistic Consultant specializing in event location planning..idk.

They sell out every table every year in the current venues. They have all of the floor layouts in place for these 3 venues as well as all other logistics. They get the Atlantic City convention center for a pittance of what the others cost. They sold out of tickets last year for the show except daily admission. Why would they change a winner for themselves. This show is their living.

I have done the National for the last 12 years and I can assure you I would vote for Chicago every year. In fact, I just did on their new dealer vote for the next 3 years. I live 14 hours from Chicago, 12 hours from Cleveland, and 10 hours from Atlantic City so obviously I am willing to drive further for the Chicago market.

They will not make a drastic change to the venues. No Dallas, no St. Louis, no Las Vegas, no Orlando. Forget about it. It will not happen.

They will not risk a loser when they currently have 3 automatic winners.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

A lot of the venues named likely don't accept bookings several years in advance.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Leon

They could still spread it out if they wanted to, imo.

That is a big IF.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Leon

Mike spoke at several of the Net54baseball dinners and laid out the reasoning for their venue choices. A lot of things have to be able to work. The size of the venue, the contract being some years out has to be able to be signed, unions, ingress and egress and cost, among the most important, as I remember.
They could still spread it out if they wanted to, imo.
One of my main issues is that tables are sold out for years, last time I checked. That just shouldn't happen.
.

Whenever this topic comes up, I like to present the (rather lengthy) posts below from a thread on this forum in 2009 from Mike Berkus. 13 years is quite some time ago, but I think what he states from an insider view are probably still the factors under consideration, and why we still have the set venue sites from that time forward.

Brian


Just a quick note to consider. I hear the same issues that are being bounced around on the thread from our National dealers and our Board of Directors, so the questions and suggestions are not new but still worthy of listening to. It would be impossible to satisfy everyone, just not possible. Families traveling to the National have totally different needs than individual collectors. We tried to work out packages in Anaheim to Disneyland, Knotts, Angel games, etc. but the groups that we did our deals with were totally disappointed with the turnout of response and do not care to work with us anymore. Response was minimal and we were advised to just let those that want to see sights, booked their tickets or times on their own. It became apparent to us that we need to concentrate on our show rather than outside venues. We do try to include all different price hotels in our block of rooms and we usually know the areas well enough to suggest food and entertainment to those that ask but few attendees ask. As for smaller cities, i.e. Knoxville, two problems exist. First, the total amount of exhibit space advertised on their website is 120,000 sq ft. This is on the first floor only, additional floors have a combination of 250,000 sq ft but broken up. We cannot house a National in that small of a facility and certainly not in broken up space and different floors. Second issue is population. We expect at least 50% of our attendance to be of a local nature, within 1 hour drive to the facility. That means that a smaller base population could mean much smaller attendance. My life would be threatened by our dealer base if I made that mistake.

Trust me on a couple of fronts. After 30 years of the National, I am somewhat familiar with the primary issues of hosting a show. The following examples are listed by priority to us, as promoters. 1) facility - must be all on 1 floor with 300,000sq ft min. 2) decorator charge - Cleveland leads in permitting dealer easy set up, that is the absolute primary reason for our repeated visits. We pay the union/decorator $45 per dealer, upfront, to turn their backs on union rules. We do not pass this charge onto the dealer and we pay it for the entire room, every booth, regardless whether the dealer uses the service or not. It is a flat fee to us and run anywhere from $23k to $28K total. Without this, dealers would pay hundreds to wait inline with their inventories and have union workers deliver the stock to each booth. 3) is local population. We would like at least 15,000 local people to join us at the show. We have a local ad and marketing budget of $50,000.00 just to encourage the sports person to either come to buy items or sell what they may have been sitting on for years. 4) local expenses to our out of towners. This includes hotel, food, parking, etc. fees that we try to keep reasonable. 5) hours of the show. We know that 2-3 days is plenty for local attendees but persons who fly in or drive a great distance want as much value for their time as possible. Also dealers need to have a full slate of hours open, to guarantee a strong financial return on their investment. We could hardly expect a VIP attendee to pay $119 for the VIP package and only have 3 days of the show, less autograph tickets, or special product sets. Also, dealers do leave early on Sunday! This is a double edge sword to us. We do not want to impose sanctions on our dealer base. We are not in the police business and the more rules we impose the more problems we all face. Our promoter team has taken it's lumps for allowing dealers to leave early. We have to close our admission booths down at least 3 hours before we are officially closed to not cheat any attendees out of their time on the show and if some booths are empty. This results in a financial loss to us with about an average of 1000 or more attendees come into the show for free. What some dealers don't realize is that many large sales have been recorded by the dealers who stay until the end. But, the bottom line of responsibility, is our job. If we put 10,000 customers on the floor at 4:40pm on Sunday, dealers would stay. We just can't find that formula to gather consumer interest after 2-3pm. We continue to try.

Well, there you have it. The instant guide for promoting a National. On one hand, there is a ton of improvement that constantly needs to be reviewed. On the other hand, we must have done one or two things right, next year in Baltimore will be our 31st annual National. We have weathered the downswing in collecting, the negative press articles, bad economies, loss of local shows and collecting base, and even the attitudes of convention centers who do not want our business. As I mentioned before, we are taking serious looks at Las Vegas, Boston, St. Louis, and anywhere on the West Coast that comes close to matching the above priorities. Baltimore is getting a very strong and positive reaction by our hobby and that is a very good sign. Sometimes it's just up to attitude that can make a difference in how succesful our show is.

Anyway, keep the passion, without it we have no hobby. Even if it's in the form of a complaint. I have grown a couple layers of thick skin over the last 30 years and can handle a lot, just as long as the National survives.

Regards,

Mike Berkus


OK, there have been some very passionate comments made and some very complimentary statements as well. I thank Jim, Rich, Leon, and others who truly care about the National and attend with a love of this hobby. Many issues concerning the show are just not known by so many people. I think that most of you, once explained, understand what can and cannot be done. All sites of the National are voted on by the dealers. No one, myself included, can select a National location without the dealers voting. Anything that happens at our show, booth fees, site selection, expenses, decorating, etc. are approved by the Board of Directors (which I am not a member), before they are put in place. Our show is owned by the dealers and everything is decided by the dealers. Once the show location is approved, my team (John Broggi, Bob Wilke, and myself) are directed to operate the show under the terms laid out by the Board of Directors. We do not make these decisions on our own. It truly matters not to me where the dealers choose our show location, I am consumed by creating the marketing, advertising, and partnerships so desperately needed by the National, to make thing work best. My role is the same regardless of the site. For those of you who think I make all these decisions, check with the Board of Directors and you will find the truth. Truth be told, I am the least political of anyone. I just want the show to survive. It is a matter of pride. No one has more fun at a National than me. I live for it.

Most dealers and collectors do not care about the details of the show. They just want it right, when they get there. They want the booth selection that they picked out ready, tables, sign, and chairs. They want the show to open on time and have no cares what the fire marshall might desire or demand. I don't blame them! They pay the freight of the show and that means I work for them. Many of the participants of the National have no idea what we have discussed so far on this thread and could care less. As Rich said " the old dealer meetings lasted until 2am". Today, our dealer meetings last 15 minutes. Things run smooth because both the Board of Directors and our promotion group are on the same track. Keep it simple and do it right. If you want a scary moment, walk into a 500,000 sq ft facility 2 days before setup and take a hard look at an huge empty area. Then, worry about filling it up with dealers, attendees, corporate sponsors, and staffing. That always gets to me before each National. No matter how many shows I have done, I always worry that this one will fail. It is what keeps me honest and working hard.

Whether it is Frank wanting Knoxville or anyone else with ideas that differ from what we are doing currently, I am always interested in hearing about it. But, once the music starts, just like a ballgame, it is too late for talking we have a show to run. Aside from seems like my complaining, I wouldn't have it any other way. I love being part of the show and hope that some of the information I have passed on is helpful to you. I know that without your participation, we would be far worse off. We need all of you to care, imput ideas, and most of all, be at the show.

Good luck to everyone for the next year and if I can be of any help, my email is (edited it out). I truly enjoy hearing from you. Hope everyone can make it to Baltimore. Most importantly, stay well, none of us are young!

Best regards,

Mike