Brady Retiring…

[steve B]

Originally Posted by robw1959

I agree with all of that, but on the flip side there may have been too much film study, if you know what I mean . . . ahem, the spygate scandal. And although Brady was in a key position to benefit from the Cheatriot's knowledge of their opponents signals during games, I put the blame for that scandal squarely on Bill Bellicheat. Still, I believe that scandal enabled Brady to be more successful early on than he should have been in helping him earn as many as three tainted Super Bowl championships.

I know; I know; it's poor form to say stuff like that when you're supposed to be paying tribute to a retiring great of the game like Brady, but I think it still needs to be considered as a major blemish on his NFL resume.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...deo-punishment

What sort of team uses signals that can be easily read or learned from videos of practice?
One that really doesn't want to win.
I'm sure there are guys who can sit in the stands and memorize that stuff without a camcorder. And I'm also sure every team employs at least one or two.

Heck, Tony Romo as a broadcaster was saying what plays were before teams ran them just going off where the different players lined up.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by steve B

What sort of team uses signals that can be easily read or learned from videos of practice?
One that really doesn't want to win.
I'm sure there are guys who can sit in the stands and memorize that stuff without a camcorder. And I'm also sure every team employs at least one or two.

Heck, Tony Romo as a broadcaster was saying what plays were before teams ran them just going off where the different players lined up.

But rules are rules for a reason. It's one thing to analyze signals and formations during a game, but quite another to film an opposing team while they are going through their practice time. This is why they were penalized hundreds of thousands of dollars and the loss of draft picks. I, for one, believe it gave them a decided edge during those early 2000s. One year the Colts averaged over 30 points per game, but couldn't even get into the end zone against them. It was like they knew what was coming on every play (because they did). It was actually Peyton Manning who busted the Pats. There was an article interview quoting him in Sporting News (I think) during the 2006 season when he said that he knew they videoed the Colts during their practices up there (at Gillette Stadium). About six months later, the scandal of Spygate was revealed.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by robw1959

But rules are rules for a reason. It's one thing to analyze signals and formations during a game, but quite another to film an opposing team while they are going through their practice time. This is why they were penalized hundreds of thousands of dollars and the loss of draft picks. I, for one, believe it gave them a decided edge during those early 2000s. One year the Colts averaged over 30 points per game, but couldn't even get into the end zone against them. It was like they knew what was coming on every play (because they did). It was actually Peyton Manning who busted the Pats. There was an article interview quoting him in Sporting News (I think) during the 2006 season when he said that he knew they videoed the Colts during their practices up there (at Gillette Stadium). About six months later, the scandal of Spygate was revealed.

The simple solution is to use different signals in practice than you use in the game. Not doing that is in my mind really dumb and just the sort of stupid the Jets seem to like.

Filming the practice or signals isn't against the rules, and wasn't then. It was a matter of where the recording was done from.
All teams film all their games no doubt including signals. That's allowed from some areas. Pre 2006 it was pretty much ok from wherever.
It's not allowed to use that footage in the same game, which everyone admits was not done.

The rule in question.
Article 9.1 (C) (14) of the Constitution and Bylaws of the NFL (p 39 of this pdf): No member shall: "Use at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which a club is a participant, any communications or information gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

How that applies when they have the teams using tablets I can't say. Perhaps it changed when they got the Microsoft sponsorship.

That quoted rule above is from this writeup of it all
https://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by steve B

The simple solution is to use different signals in practice than you use in the game. Not doing that is in my mind really dumb and just the sort of stupid the Jets seem to like.

Filming the practice or signals isn't against the rules, and wasn't then. It was a matter of where the recording was done from.
All teams film all their games no doubt including signals. That's allowed from some areas. Pre 2006 it was pretty much ok from wherever.
It's not allowed to use that footage in the same game, which everyone admits was not done.

The rule in question.
Article 9.1 (C) (14) of the Constitution and Bylaws of the NFL (p 39 of this pdf): No member shall: "Use at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which a club is a participant, any communications or information gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

How that applies when they have the teams using tablets I can't say. Perhaps it changed when they got the Microsoft sponsorship.

That quoted rule above is from this writeup of it all
https://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

So I guess the penalties were indiscriminate and unjust in your opinion? We all have an opinion, but it is what it is - just another reminder that the Patriots would try to win at all costs, regardless of the rules. Belichick tried to apologize for his "misinterpretation" of the rules, but Dungy wasn't having any of it. He publicly criticized Belichick, saying that the rules are so clear that they couldn't be misinterpreted without some intent to break them.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by robw1959

So I guess the penalties were indiscriminate and unjust in your opinion? We all have an opinion, but it is what it is - just another reminder that the Patriots would try to win at all costs, regardless of the rules. Belichick tried to apologize for his "misinterpretation" of the rules, but Dungy wasn't having any of it. He publicly criticized Belichick, saying that the rules are so clear that they couldn't be misinterpreted without some intent to break them.

The penalties were more about disobeying the commissioner than the rule breaking. I'm trying to remember if it was this one or a different thing where the penalty was way beyond what the rules called for. (Or if it was both?)

That website is a fun one by the way. It pretty well covers all the stuff each team has done to try to get an edge that wasn't quite by the book.

[egri]

That didn't last long. He's back.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by egri

That didn't last long. He's back.

Maybe the Falcons can finally beat him in ‘22, the Bears did for the first time in '20.