Why are they not playing baseball ?

Tabe · #1 02-09-2022, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

It's 100% on the owners.

It's easy to be pissed off at both sides, Because it's the Millionaires Vs. The Billionaires, but there's genuine problems. The owners have more or less imposed a de facto salary cap, average player salary has more or less stayed the same over the past decade, while revenue and profits have gone through the roof. The commissioner of the sport is grossly out of touch, referring to the crowning achievement of the sport as a "piece of metal"

None of the players demands are truly unreasonable either. They want to lower the amount of service time before free agency, they don't want draft bonuses to be capped, they want the luxury tax raised so teams can be more competitive.

Further than that players expressed the willingness to play under the old CBA for this season, until an agreement could be reached, but the owners refused. It was the owners that locked out the players, not the other way around.

Completely agree. It's 100% on the owners.

One of the main things the players are upset about is the manipulation of service time. Kris Bryant is the poster child for that. Teams hold off bringing up players that are clearly ready for the majors until after a certain date so they can get another year of that player's services before free agency. It's anti-competitive, it artificially lowers salaries, and it's just wrong.

Along with that, players are also upset that teams are tanking. And, as always, they're upset that teams who receive revenue sharing aren't spending it on players as they're supposed to.

It's also worth noting that MLB cut the draft in size and eliminated 1/4 of all minor league teams - just because. What they've done to minor league baseball is just criminal.

insidethewrapper · #2 02-09-2022, 06:38 PM

I guess everyone sees things differently. If I own a business, I can set my price on an item and set my salary wages. If it is not competitive with the business down the street I will go out of business. If the wages are poor , I will not have many employees etc. The market dictates. I think the owner should make these decisions and not the employees.

Snapolit1 · #3 02-09-2022, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I guess everyone sees things differently. If I own a business, I can set my price on an item and set my salary wages. If it is not competitive with the business down the street I will go out of business. If the wages are poor , I will not have many employees etc. The market dictates. I think the owner should make these decisions and not the employees.

There is no other major league of baseball down the street. There is 1. And it's turned into a gazillion dollar enterprise on the backs of skilled players. Not greedy owners.

Wanaselja · #4 02-09-2022, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, blame the players. 65% of them don't make a million dollars. Focus on the guys making $500,000, not the owners who own teams worth BILLIONS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

There is no other major league of baseball down the street. There is 1. And it's turned into a gazillion dollar enterprise on the backs of skilled players. Not greedy owners.

Nothing to add. Just thought it was worth repeating.

John1941 · #5 02-09-2022, 06:50 PM

It's so annoying how, on MLB.com, they have a FAQ for the CBA negotiations, and they blame everything on the players. Yeah, right.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #6 02-09-2022, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I guess everyone sees things differently. If I own a business, I can set my price on an item and set my salary wages. If it is not competitive with the business down the street I will go out of business. If the wages are poor , I will not have many employees etc. The market dictates. I think the owner should make these decisions and not the employees.

Your business doesn't have an anti-trust exemption...

egri · #7 02-09-2022, 06:57 PM

Baseball will survive, despite the best efforts of the people who run it.

BobbyStrawberry · #8 02-09-2022, 07:04 PM

Doubtless one thing we can all agree on is that Rob Manfred has no business being commissioner of a beer league, much less MLB.

egri · #9 02-09-2022, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Doubtless one thing we can all agree on is that Rob Manfred has no business being commissioner of a beer league, much less MLB.

I didn't think we could have a worse commissioner than Selig, but Manfred has proved me wrong. Selig at least was a fan of the game.

jingram058 · #10 02-09-2022, 07:34 PM

It's 100% on the players and the owners, 50/50. The whole thing is a pile of feces anymore. Too many TV commercials every half inning to pay those player salaries you're all so quick to defend, thus you can't shorten the length of a nine inning game enough to keep anyone interested. Stupid designated hitters, stadiums named after corporations, instant replays, four finger intentional walks, yada yada yada. Yeah, baseball is great, the players all ought make a trillion dollars and the owners are all greedy. BS.

Bigdaddy · #11 02-09-2022, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Your business doesn't have an anti-trust exemption...

Exactly. Things are changing in sports and they are going in the athletes' favor. Just ask the NCAA. It won't be long until the anti-trust exemption goes the way of the complete game pitcher.

Owners don't get to be billionaires by giving away their money. The players will have to pry it out of their fingers.

And to answer the OP: Will baseball season being delayed etc. effect the card collecting world ? Yep, and it ain't going to be in a positive way.

shagrotn77 · #12 02-09-2022, 08:41 PM

I sure hope that '52 Mantle was a reprint!

todeen · #13 02-09-2022, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I guess everyone sees things differently. If I own a business, I can set my price on an item and set my salary wages. If it is not competitive with the business down the street I will go out of business. If the wages are poor , I will not have many employees etc. The market dictates. I think the owner should make these decisions and not the employees.

Here's an analogy that fits since you want to talk as a business owner: inflation has far exceeded the minimum wage increase, yet profits have sored st the same time, and now players have an opportunity to narrow the gap that was created. Just like in real life, this can be compared to the fight for $15, or all the teacher strikes the last 5 years around the country. When workers get left behind, workers get aggravated.

First, MLB minimum salary is the lowest among NFL, NBA, and NHL. In current negotiations, players requested making as much as 3rd place NHL. Owners said no. MLB is the #1 sport that relies on minimum salary players. In 2019, minimum salary earners were roughly 55% of all rostered players. That discrepancy really puts the onus on MLBPA to increase minimum salary because so many players are at the bottom. Additionally, owners have weaponized WAR, recognizing that the best years of a player are often still within the original contract signed as a draft pick. Thus there is little monetary incentive to offer contracts to average or above average veteran players. There is no ROI. Owners have obviously colluded to reduce free agent earnings... remember the year no free agents were signed over the winter of 2018-19? Some players created their own spring training group waiting to be picked up. This collusion has led to four consecutive years of falling average salary.

At the same time, gambling advertising has unleashed a flood of new money that MLB hopes to tap into. And the new sportst card contract should also bring in new money. Further, owners are requesting MLBPA okays ads on uniforms which will bring in hundreds of millions. They will see a windfall of money when the CBA is signed. I'm baffled by the owners resistance to negotiate in good faith. No matter what they give players, the owners will walk away winners.

The MLBPA has to take action now to protect their future. There is a lot at stake! I'm certain it will mean no All Star game unless owners give in. I don't see players crumbling on their requests. I fully support the draft lottery, a minimum team salary, and punishments for tanking / draft pick rewards for competitive teams. They made a lot of mistakes in negotiations the last two or three CBAs that owners have manipulated. They seek to remedy a few of those.

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insidethewrapper · #14 02-09-2022, 10:37 PM

I see the owners have offered a $ 615,000 minimum salary and the players union is at $ 715,000. Not a bad job.

todeen · #15 02-09-2022, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

I see the owners have offered a $ 615,000 minimum salary and the players union is at $ 715,000. Not a bad job.

NHL at #3 of the big four is at $750k. The owners offer of $615k is a slap in the face. You can argue that it's a nice salary, but it continues to pull the best talent away from MLB. Why would other Kyler Murrays choose baseball over football? They won't. And it negatively affects every MLB fan.

It's the same argument that public education is facing right now. Big money has convinced states to pay teachers less and less, and require more and more. And now college kids are making the choice that teaching "just isn't worth it professionally." It will negatively affect everyone including business.

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Jim65 · #16 02-10-2022, 06:41 AM

Both sides suck. What pisses me off is there will be some sort of compromise eventually yet they feel the need to play the "my dick is bigger" game.

The longer they hold out, the worse it will get for the players. The players are bragging about solidarity when they aren't losing paychecks yet. Not every player makes multi millions and what happens when the league minimum guys have no paycheck and the mortgage is due? Maybe Gerrit Cole can hire them to clean his pool.

Jim65 · #17 02-10-2022, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todeen

NHL at #3 of the big four is at $750k.

The NHL also has a cap and maximum salary for players. Would the MLBPA agree to those same rules?

Leon · #18 02-10-2022, 08:22 AM

I agree both sides suck. Since I quit watching after the strike in 1994 I have cared not one iota about MLB. I think it all sucks. And I don't think it will affect our vintage baseball cards either.

.

bnorth · #19 02-10-2022, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todeen

NHL at #3 of the big four is at $750k. The owners offer of $615k is a slap in the face. You can argue that it's a nice salary, but it continues to pull the best talent away from MLB. Why would other Kyler Murrays choose baseball over football? They won't. And it negatively affects every MLB fan.

It's the same argument that public education is facing right now. Big money has convinced states to pay teachers less and less, and require more and more. And now college kids are making the choice that teaching "just isn't worth it professionally." It will negatively affect everyone including business.

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There will always be a sport/job that is the lowest paid. That is no reason for anyone to get a pay increase.

The players and owners are both doing way better than good. I vote lower the damn ticket prices. The average fan can't afford to take the family to a game and enjoy some stadium food.

Rich Klein · #20 02-10-2022, 11:32 AM

BTW that was a real 1952 Topps Mantle which was burned. The card store owner who burned the cards was quite specific about making sure everyone knew that it was "THE" card.

Rich

BobbyStrawberry · #21 02-10-2022, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

I vote lower the damn ticket prices. The average fan can't afford to take the family to a game and enjoy some stadium food.

For affordability, minor league games are where it's at. It's really, really unfortunate that they killed so many MiLB teams to save a few bucks...

Tabe · #22 02-10-2022, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todeen

NHL at #3 of the big four is at $750k. The owners offer of $615k is a slap in the face.

NHL at #3 while playing half as many games under far worse TV contracts and lower attendance.

MLB's minimum salary is way, way too low in comparison to the other leagues.

Frank A · #23 02-10-2022, 01:35 PM

The truth of the matter is that if you broke your ass doing heavy construction as I did, you will call the players greedy bastards. What the hell do these guys want. Half a million or one million is not enough for these guys to bother to play. The hell with them. Send them home and get some new guys. Who needs their shit. Tell the players union to go to hell. Start a new league. Just a bunch of grownup brats.

steve B · #24 02-10-2022, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabe

Completely agree. It's 100% on the owners.

One of the main things the players are upset about is the manipulation of service time. Kris Bryant is the poster child for that. Teams hold off bringing up players that are clearly ready for the majors until after a certain date so they can get another year of that player's services before free agency. It's anti-competitive, it artificially lowers salaries, and it's just wrong.

Along with that, players are also upset that teams are tanking. And, as always, they're upset that teams who receive revenue sharing aren't spending it on players as they're supposed to.

It's also worth noting that MLB cut the draft in size and eliminated 1/4 of all minor league teams - just because. What they've done to minor league baseball is just criminal.

I'm wondering if the opposite will happen now that they've gotten rid of so much of the minor leagues.
Especially if they don't limit draft bonuses.
I can easily see players brought up well before they're really ready and some really good ones failing.

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