Best lefty off all time? My vote is Koufax!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

[QUOTE=Snowman;2165342] Yes, that's right, the year Warren Spahn won the CYA his ERA+ was 130. That's a staggering statistic. 130 is NOT great. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that no other pitcher since has won the CYA with a lower ERA+ than that.

Um, not even close:

Pete Vuckovich 1982 (the worst Cy Young winner ever) 114
Steve Stone 1980 - 123
Bob Welch 1990 - 125
Mike McCormick 1967 - 118
Early Wynn 1959 - 120

and I'm going to stop because there's too many to list them all. 130 is actually lower tier of the middle of the pack.

"Record" appears to be Jim Lonborg 1967 at 112

[Snowman]

[QUOTE=Aquarian Sports Cards;2165354]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Yes, that's right, the year Warren Spahn won the CYA his ERA+ was 130. That's a staggering statistic. 130 is NOT great. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that no other pitcher since has won the CYA with a lower ERA+ than that.

Um, not even close:

Pete Vuckovich 1982 (the worst Cy Young winner ever) 114
Steve Stone 1980 - 123
Bob Welch 1990 - 125
Mike McCormick 1967 - 118
Early Wynn 1959 - 120

and I'm going to stop because there's too many to list them all. 130 is actually lower tier of the middle of the pack.

"Record" appears to be Jim Lonborg 1967 at 112

Ouch! That's disturbing. Smells like some serious politics involved.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Ouch! That's disturbing. Smells like some serious politics involved.

Not politics there. Just the typical reverence for wins that the era had.

Palmer and Sutcliffe had the best seasons in the AL that year, but at 15-5 and 14-8, it was heresy to give them the Cy Young. Vuckovich 18-6 with that low ERA+ and a WHIP of 1.502. Now that is something that's probably a record for the worst WHIP of any CYA winner.

And it wasn't even close. 14 first place votes for Vuck. No one else had more than five.

But as far as politics (or would it be better described as simply popularity and reputation)....look at Steve Carlton winning the NL CYA over Steve Rogers that year ('82). Though that also included the obsession with wins. Because even though Rogers went 19-8 and had vastly superior numbers, a 23 win Steve Carlton season was all that mattered.

Oh and 20 out of 24 first place votes for that one

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

[QUOTE=Snowman;2165360]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Ouch! That's disturbing. Smells like some serious politics involved.

A lot of them were based on wins. Notice a dearth of post 2000 players on that list.

Nolan Ryan should've won in 1987 leading the league in ERA, ERA+, FIP, K/9, H/9 and K/BB but there was no way in hell an 8 - 16 pitcher was going to win an award back then. It's amazing that he finished 5th actually.

[Carter08]

[QUOTE=Aquarian Sports Cards;2165354]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Yes, that's right, the year Warren Spahn won the CYA his ERA+ was 130. That's a staggering statistic. 130 is NOT great. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that no other pitcher since has won the CYA with a lower ERA+ than that.

Um, not even close:

Pete Vuckovich 1982 (the worst Cy Young winner ever) 114
Steve Stone 1980 - 123
Bob Welch 1990 - 125
Mike McCormick 1967 - 118
Early Wynn 1959 - 120

and I'm going to stop because there's too many to list them all. 130 is actually lower tier of the middle of the pack.

"Record" appears to be Jim Lonborg 1967 at 112

Yup. Plus Sandy led the league in the category exactly twice. Spahn led the league in it, yup, twice. Not equating the two. Just defending Spahnie from a certain Spahn hater. Again, they named the darn award after the guy.