The Cleveland Guardians? Yes, It's Official

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

They will accept it. The city of Cleveland already is diehard for teams called the Cavaliers and Browns.

This brings up a good point. Were Paul Brown and/or Jim Brown offended by the name "Browns?"

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Mark17

This brings up a good point. Were Paul Brown and/or Jim Brown offended by the name "Browns?"

Doubtful as to Paul-- the team was named for him.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Doubtful as to Paul-- the team was named for him.

And the Indians were named after Sockalexis. Why can a team be named after some people and no offense is taken (Brown, Lajoie) but not others?

It seems like for every tradition in this country, there is somebody intent on tearing it down.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And the Indians were named after Sockalexis. Why can a team be named after some people and no offense is taken (Brown, Lajoie) but not others?

It seems like for every tradition in this country, there is somebody intent on tearing it down.

Yep. Like this one.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/us/kk...tol/index.html

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Yep. Like this one.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/us/kk...tol/index.html

That would be an excellent analogy........ if Sockalexis had founded a hate group.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Mark17

That would be an excellent analogy........ if Sockalexis had founded a hate group.

I see. You get to decide what is tradition and what is offensive. Damn shame the Cleveland ownership didn't consult with you before deciding to change names.

As was discussed back late last year, this so-called cancel culture has been going on for half a century now when it comes to teams changing their nicknames. So you can piss and moan all you want, it's not going away.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I see. You get to decide what is tradition and what is offensive. Damn shame the Cleveland ownership didn't consult with you before deciding to change names.

As was discussed back late last year, this so-called cancel culture has been going on for half a century now when it comes to teams changing their nicknames. So you can piss and moan all you want, it's not going away.

Cancel culture has been going on for 50 years?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Yep. Like this one.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/us/kk...tol/index.html

Which is worse? To memorialize a KKK member with a bust or parade with them?

[bigtrain]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Which is worse? To memorialize a KKK member with a bust or parade with them?

I am sure that you know that your post is disingenuous BS. Senator Robert Byrd was a member of the KKK in his youth, later calling it the biggest mistake of his life. He renounced the KKK, racism and segregation. Nathan Bedford Forrest was a traitor, an unrepentant racist and a sociopathic murderer.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

I am sure that you know that your post is disingenuous BS.

More disingenuous than your BS post?

You think political reasons might have been why Byrd renounced the KKK, racism and segregation?

[Mark17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest

Originally Posted by bigtrain

I am sure that you know that your post is disingenuous BS. Senator Robert Byrd was a member of the KKK in his youth, later calling it the biggest mistake of his life. He renounced the KKK, racism and segregation. Nathan Bedford Forrest was a traitor, an unrepentant racist and a sociopathic murderer.

Forrest joined the Ku Klux Klan in 1867 (two years after its founding) and was elected its first Grand Wizard. The group was a loose collection of local factions throughout the former Confederacy that used violence and the threat of violence to maintain white control over the newly enfranchised former slaves. The Klan, with Forrest at the lead, suppressed voting rights of blacks in the South through violence and intimidation during the elections of 1868.

In 1869, Forrest expressed disillusionment with the lack of discipline in the white supremacist terrorist group across the South and issued a letter ordering the dissolution of the Ku Klux Klan as well as the destruction of its costumes; he then withdrew from the organization. In the last years of his life, Forrest insisted he had never been a member and made a public speech in favor of racial harmony.

Much like Bob Byrd, Forrest denounced racism later in life.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And the Indians were named after Sockalexis. Why can a team be named after some people and no offense is taken (Brown, Lajoie) but not others?

It seems like for every tradition in this country, there is somebody intent on tearing it down.

Cancel culture.


I am taking offense at these guys playing baseball!!

[MK]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And the Indians were named after Sockalexis. Why can a team be named after some people and no offense is taken (Brown, Lajoie) but not others?

It seems like for every tradition in this country, there is somebody intent on tearing it down.

You just nailed the real motive behind this entire cancel culture.

[Mike D.]

As someone who’s team is named after laundry, and not even fancy top layer laundry, I find this hard to get up in arms about.

[dfletch00]

Long live Louis

I liked Spiders and Blues both better but could have been worse....
moving on... im more upset about the 9th inning blown save last night....
Go Tribe !

[vintagewhitesox]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

As someone who’s team is named after laundry, and not even fancy top layer laundry, I find this hard to get up in arms about.

I was going to say the same thing!

[hcv123]

The Cleveland apologists!? or the Cleveland Cancel Culturists?

[vintagewhitesox]

Originally Posted by hcv123

The Cleveland apologists!? or the Cleveland Cancel Culturists?

Both are great! hopefully the Braves will be next.

[frankbmd]

Why not a threatening geographic name

Introducing the CLEVELAND EERIES

[jbsports33]

Why not the "Spiders" just crazy!

Jimmy

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by jbsports33

Why not the "Spiders" just crazy!

Jimmy

Supposedly IP issues.

[philo98]

I was at Progressive Field tonight. When they announced the new name before the game, most of the crowd booed. I don’t care either way. But I can tell you after living 25+ years overseas, my experience back in the country is everyone is afraid….. about everything. Thank god for baseball though. Come October 4 we are leaving and will be back first week of April for the next season.

[Frank A]

My first thought when I read this on the internet was, "What a stupid name". Teams should let the fans come up with a name. Oh well.

[661fish]

Sad. What's sadder is the people on here that think it's good.

[esd10]

The cleveland hugs

[conor912]

Should have just gone with the Cleveland Wokes.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by conor912

Should have just gone with the Cleveland Wokes.

And that would offend the insomniacs.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

And that would offend the insomniacs.

Just like Naps would offend siestas and slumbers

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by conor912

Should have just gone with the Cleveland Wokes.

The Cleveland Capitulaters

[paulmolive]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at how awful this is. The Guardians? Ridiculous times

[Tabe]

The name isn't great - a tribute to bridge pillars?!? - but, at the end of the day, I don't care. The owners are free to do whatever they want with the name.

[philliesfan]

I will always refer to them as the Indians.
I will always refer to the Washington football club as the Redskins.
Same for all other changes.

And I will ALWAYS stand for our National Anthem.

That's just me.
Bob
Besides, the Guardians? What a horrible name.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And the Indians were named after Sockalexis. Why can a team be named after some people and no offense is taken (Brown, Lajoie) but not others?

It seems like for every tradition in this country, there is somebody intent on tearing it down.

They weren't named after Sockalexis. Otherwise, they would have been called the Cleveland Socks.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Mark17

This brings up a good point. Were Paul Brown and/or Jim Brown offended by the name "Browns?"

They were probably OK with it, but I heard the local UPS Drivers raised hell.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Mark17

This brings up a good point. Were Paul Brown and/or Jim Brown offended by the name "Browns?"

Don't think you or many here get it.

The Indian nation consider themselves a 'people', a descendant race and heritage that would choose to not allow people to simply use the label for their own edification.

So, just like there won't be a Chicago Jews, or San Fransisco Negroes, or Manhattan Muslims, Toronto Asians, New Orleans Africans or other such ridiculous and improper titling, it is reasonable IMO for others not to be able to appropriate and use however they like the naming label Indians - with whatever associations or marketing selling out they choose and with little care for the very proud nation of human beings inhabiting this land pre Western discovery.
Would seem very easy to understand looking at what the Cleveland BBC did previously in creating the Chief Wahoo mascot.

I don't get what people feel is such a hardship to give up, when you are offending people on the one hand, but could so easily remedy with having care over the language one uses.

BTW, my vote would have been for Spiders too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Whither the Notre Dame Fighting Irish?

[68Hawk]

I need to stick to the cards.
People are A holes.

[BCauley]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Don't think you or many here get it.

Well that’s very apparent since Indians are in India and Native Americans are labeled as Indians because some chucklehead got his navigation all wrong.


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[BobC]

Originally Posted by BCauley

Well that’s very apparent since Indians are in India and Native Americans are labeled as Indians because some chucklehead got his navigation all wrong.


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Maybe what the Cleveland BBC could have done was to check with people from India then to see if they had an issue with their nationality being used as the name for a professional sports team, and if not, just dump any association with the Chief Wahoo mascot or anything related to native Americans and simply declare from now on the Cleveland Indians moniker had nothing to do with native Americans anymore. As someone else pointed out, not all ethnic or other groups have an objection to the use of their name like that. At least I've never heard of anyone complaing about the Fighting Irish, Celtics, or the Vikings, among others.

[BCauley]

Originally Posted by BobC

Maybe what the Cleveland BBC could have done was to check with people from India then to see if they had an issue with their nationality being used as the name for a professional sports team, and if not, just dump any association with the Chief Wahoo mascot or anything related to native Americans and simply declare from now on the Cleveland Indians moniker had nothing to do with native Americans anymore. As someone else pointed out, not all ethnic or other groups have an objection to the use of their name like that. At least I've never heard of anyone complaing about the Fighting Irish, Celtics, or the Vikings, among others.

Well, the Cleveland BBC can do as they see fit. Free market and all. They also dumped Chief Wahoo ~3 years ago.


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[BobC]

Originally Posted by BCauley

Well, the Cleveland BBC can do as they see fit. Free market and all. They also dumped Chief Wahoo ~3 years ago.


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They don't put Chief Wahoo on the uniforms, but last I heard the team still owns the copyright and I believe they still have Chief Wahoo adorned items selling in their gift shops. So they did not completely dump the mascot and are still apparently making some money off it.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Personally, I think the name change is long overdue, but I don't think they made a great choice with "Guardians".

Also, out of curiosity–with all the discussion of "white privilege" and "cancel culture"–is there is a single post on this thread from someone who is not white?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by BobC

They don't put Chief Wahoo on the uniforms, but last I heard the team still owns the copyright and I believe they still have Chief Wahoo adorned items selling in their gift shops. So they did not completely dump the mascot and are still apparently making some money off it.

That is correct:

https://magazine.promomarketing.com/...erican-groups/

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Chicago Jews, or San Fransisco Negroes, or Manhattan Muslims, Toronto Asians, New Orleans Africans

When I was a kid, we played Cowboys and Indians. We never played Jews, Negroes, Muslims, Asians or Africans. But that was just the kids I played with. Maybe it was different in other parts of the country?

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

People are A holes.

Yup.