T206 Honus Wagner SGC 3 What is the Over/Under

[Bpm0014]

I will take $4MM

Give me 440/400 on the over…

[whiteymet]

YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME!!

I owned this exact card in the 70's!

Mike Aronstein (of TCMA fame)whose son Andrew is a member here, turned it up on Long Island I believe. The owner would not sell it to Mike. But he mentioned that the "convention" (which is what they were called in those days) in Detroit was going on and that they had an auction there.

So Mike called Lloyd Toerpe, Jay Barry or Frank Nagy or one of the other Detroit guys running the show in 1973 and it was auctioned off there. I won it for $1,100 outbidding Joe and Karen Michalowicz. I am NOT missing any zero's.

I sold it along with the rest of my collection to Barry Halper in 1976, it was the first of three Wagner's he owned. It disappeared from the hobby, at least as far as I knew until it showed up in a Bill Goodwin auction a few years back where if memory serves it sold for $1.2 M. I asked Bill about it and he said it was consigned by a guy in Houston.

I contacted Brian at REA today and he tells me it changed ownership once since the Goodwin auction.

I'd be curious to know how it got from Halper to Houston. Most likely a trade after he picked up his second Wagner. Didn't he donate one to the HOF? I know Barry traded my Roberts, Konstanky and Stanky Topps Current All Stars for Yankee World Series rings so he did trade.

Maybe this history will tug at the heartstrings of the consignor and he will honor the $1100 I paid for it so it can go back into the hands of the first collector who owned it. 😁

[Jewish-collector]

A bunch (maybe more than a bunch) of members of Net54 should put their money together and win the card. I'm not kidding. Then in 5 or so years, sell it and everyone would make a lot of money. Sometimes you just gotta say WTF and be completely serious. Again, I'm not kidding.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME!!

I owned this exact card in the 70's!

Mike Aronstein (of TCMA fame)whose son Andrew is a member here, turned it up on Long Island I believe. The owner would not sell it to Mike. But he mentioned that the "convention" (which is what they were called in those days) in Detroit was going on and that they had an auction there.

So Mike called Lloyd Toerpe, Jay Barry or Frank Nagy or one of the other Detroit guys running the show in 1973 and it was auctioned off there. I won it for $1,100 outbidding Joe and Karen Michalowicz. I am NOT missing any zero's.

I sold it along with the rest of my collection to Barry Halper in 1976, it was the first of three Wagner's he owned. It disappeared from the hobby, at least as far as I knew until it showed up in a Bill Goodwin auction a few years back where if memory serves it sold for $1.2 M. I asked Bill about it and he said it was consigned by a guy in Houston.

I contacted Brian at REA today and he tells me it changed ownership once since the Goodwin auction.

I'd be curious to know how it got from Halper to Houston. Most likely a trade after he picked up his second Wagner. Didn't he donate one to the HOF? I know Barry traded my Roberts, Konstanky and Stanky Topps Current All Stars for Yankee World Series rings so he did trade.

Maybe this history will tug at the heartstrings of the consignor and he will honor the $1100 I paid for it so it can go back into the hands of the first collector who owned it. 😁

Fred-If you don’t mind me asking, why did you sell the collection when you did? Did you just lose interest or did Halper’s bid just look too attractive. I think I’m about the same age as you and I know that I sold a coin collection at about the same time in my life.

Jay

[Aaron Seefeldt]

My guess is over 5.5m

It’s the 1 card that even non collectors have heard of, the Mona Lisa of all cards

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Fred-If you don’t mind me asking, why did you sell the collection when you did? Did you just lose interest or did Halper’s bid just look too attractive. I think I’m about the same age as you and I know that I sold a coin collection at about the same time in my life.

Jay

Jay:

Halper came onto the scene out of nowhere in the early 70's and was paying three times what things were going for at the time so everyone was selling him stuff.

He lived about 20 minutes from me at the time and asked if he could come over to see my collection. When he did he asked "how much for the Wagner"? I said I'd never sell the Wagner, I'd have to sell the entire collection. He asked how much for the entire collection?

Well, in those days that never happened. I sat down and wrote out long hand everything I had. T200, T201, T205, T206, T207 complete, most Goudy sets including Lajoie, Play Balls, tons of regionals, Topps and Bowman complete except for 52 Hi #'s ( I refused to pay $3 each for them!), Exhibits, Topps test sets, uncut sheets etc. etc. Came up with a price took 15% off as was the custom in those days if you were buying something big/expensive and gave Halper the price.

Without blinking or negotiating he said "fine" and ended up paying me with quite a few postal money orders made out to me from Joe Tinker, Frank Chance. and other old players... you get the idea.

I was 26 years old, getting married, and figured it was time. No one else would have been able to buy the entire collection, so off it went. My only mistake was figuring the "current" value and not the 3X $$ Halper was paying at the time.

Saying all that, the sale allowed me a few years later to start a business that evolved into more businesses and I was able to retire at age 55.

So, I would have had to live in a tent for 45 years in order to cash in now and sell the Wagner for the Millions of dollars you all are throwing around that is making me SICK!!!

Fred

[scooter729]

Great stories, Fred - thanks for sharing. Must be quite a thrill to at least know you owned it for a few years!

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Jay:

Halper came onto the scene out of nowhere in the early 70's and was paying three times what things were going for at the time so everyone was selling him stuff.

He lived about 20 minutes from me at the time and asked if he could come over to see my collection. When he did he asked "how much for the Wagner"? I said I'd never sell the Wagner, I'd have to sell the entire collection. He asked how much for the entire collection?

Well, in those days that never happened. I sat down and wrote out long hand everything I had. T200, T201, T205, T206, T207 complete, most Goudy sets including Lajoie, Play Balls, tons of regionals, Topps and Bowman complete except for 52 Hi #'s ( I refused to pay $3 each for them!), Exhibits, Topps test sets, uncut sheets etc. etc. Came up with a price took 15% off as was the custom in those days if you were buying something big/expensive and gave Halper the price.

Without blinking or negotiating he said "fine" and ended up paying me with quite a few postal money orders made out to me from Joe Tinker, Frank Chance. and other old players... you get the idea.

I was 26 years old, getting married, and figured it was time. No one else would have been able to buy the entire collection, so off it went. My only mistake was figuring the "current" value and not the 3X $$ Halper was paying at the time.

Saying all that, the sale allowed me a few years later to start a business that evolved into more businesses and I was able to retire at age 55.

So, I would have had to live in a tent for 45 years in order to cash in now and sell the Wagner for the Millions of dollars you all are throwing around that is making me SICK!!!

Fred

Great story Fred and one of the reasons I love this sub, hands down the greatest member base. No other group even comes close. If it makes you feel any better I sold a 14CJ Wagner that would grade a 4-5 today when I was a broke 21 year old trying to make rent for $250. You do what you have to do when circumstances demand it. Congrats on owning the nicest $1110 Wagner I've ever seen.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Jay:

Halper came onto the scene out of nowhere in the early 70's and was paying three times what things were going for at the time so everyone was selling him stuff.

He lived about 20 minutes from me at the time and asked if he could come over to see my collection. When he did he asked "how much for the Wagner"? I said I'd never sell the Wagner, I'd have to sell the entire collection. He asked how much for the entire collection?

Well, in those days that never happened. I sat down and wrote out long hand everything I had. T200, T201, T205, T206, T207 complete, most Goudy sets including Lajoie, Play Balls, tons of regionals, Topps and Bowman complete except for 52 Hi #'s ( I refused to pay $3 each for them!), Exhibits, Topps test sets, uncut sheets etc. etc. Came up with a price took 15% off as was the custom in those days if you were buying something big/expensive and gave Halper the price.

Without blinking or negotiating he said "fine" and ended up paying me with quite a few postal money orders made out to me from Joe Tinker, Frank Chance. and other old players... you get the idea.

I was 26 years old, getting married, and figured it was time. No one else would have been able to buy the entire collection, so off it went. My only mistake was figuring the "current" value and not the 3X $$ Halper was paying at the time.

Saying all that, the sale allowed me a few years later to start a business that evolved into more businesses and I was able to retire at age 55.

So, I would have had to live in a tent for 45 years in order to cash in now and sell the Wagner for the Millions of dollars you all are throwing around that is making me SICK!!!

Fred

Fred: Thanks for sharing that story. As you tell it it sounds like you did just fine with that sale. That money helped kick start a career that led to what sounds like a successful life. It must have been a wonderful time to collect when you started, so much available and actual face to face interaction being required to add to your collection. I started my collecting much later in life, around 1990, but even then I remember the incredible variety of scarce cards that were available at shows. Stay well my friend and hopefully some day we run into one another.

Jay

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Saying all that, the sale allowed me a few years later to start a business that evolved into more businesses and I was able to retire at age 55.

So, I would have had to live in a tent for 45 years in order to cash in now and sell the Wagner for the Millions of dollars you all are throwing around that is making me SICK!!!
Fred

Every one of us would like to have back just about everything we ever sold in our time in the hobby. But presumably the money we got at the time served a good purpose--yours certainly did--and not one of us imagined in our wildest dreams what would happen to the market for those things. Our generation of collectors (I'm 75) have many stories similar to yours, Fred, in every genre. Things were cheap in the 1960s and 1970s, we got the thrill of putting together some amazing collections for very little, then when the market started accelerating we sold them to start businesses and families, travel, enjoy our youths, etc. How lucky we--and you--were to have had the privilege of that life experience.

[MK]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Jay:

Halper came onto the scene out of nowhere in the early 70's and was paying three times what things were going for at the time so everyone was selling him stuff.

He lived about 20 minutes from me at the time and asked if he could come over to see my collection. When he did he asked "how much for the Wagner"? I said I'd never sell the Wagner, I'd have to sell the entire collection. He asked how much for the entire collection?

Well, in those days that never happened. I sat down and wrote out long hand everything I had. T200, T201, T205, T206, T207 complete, most Goudy sets including Lajoie, Play Balls, tons of regionals, Topps and Bowman complete except for 52 Hi #'s ( I refused to pay $3 each for them!), Exhibits, Topps test sets, uncut sheets etc. etc. Came up with a price took 15% off as was the custom in those days if you were buying something big/expensive and gave Halper the price.

Without blinking or negotiating he said "fine" and ended up paying me with quite a few postal money orders made out to me from Joe Tinker, Frank Chance. and other old players... you get the idea.

I was 26 years old, getting married, and figured it was time. No one else would have been able to buy the entire collection, so off it went. My only mistake was figuring the "current" value and not the 3X $$ Halper was paying at the time.

Saying all that, the sale allowed me a few years later to start a business that evolved into more businesses and I was able to retire at age 55.

So, I would have had to live in a tent for 45 years in order to cash in now and sell the Wagner for the Millions of dollars you all are throwing around that is making me SICK!!!

Fred

Fred,
I read your story in total amazement. What a collection you had accumulated. How, if you don’t mind me asking, does a 26 year old manage to acquire all those cards? The fact you wouldn’t spend $3 for a ‘52 high number tells me you were thrifty.

[mrreality68]

slow but steady it goes up.

$3.2 million dollars (before buyers premium) a little while ago

Interesting but does this or does this nor effect the rest of the market.

I mean we know the prices have spiked especially on high end items.

What happens to the rest of the market. Will it stay at these new prices or down tick.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

slow but steady it goes up.

$3.2 million dollars (before buyers premium) a little while ago

Interesting but does this or does this nor effect the rest of the market.

I mean we know the prices have spiked especially on high end items.

What happens to the rest of the market. Will it stay at these new prices or down tick.

Hard to tell......a lot of dark money through crypto coming in on these big items.

I think long run this card will appreciate.

The rest of Vintage Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, and Jackie Centered In 6’s and above are Rock Stars.

I think lower grade will come down a lot take for examples 33 Ruth’s grades 1-5’s were nuts from Jan-April in those grades they have come back considerably.

[TCMA]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Mike Aronstein (of TCMA fame)whose son Andrew is a member here, turned it up on Long Island I believe. The owner would not sell it to Mike. But he mentioned that the "convention" (which is what they were called in those days) in Detroit was going on and that they had an auction there.

Fred is correct that my dad discovered the card on Long Island in 1973. Not only that but I still have the hand-written receipt he received on a piece of notebook paper when he purchased the card -- two days after the show ended on July 22, 1973.

According to the Sep-Oct 1973 issue of Bob Jaspersen's Sport Fan this was the first Wagner ever sold at auction "at a convention" and I could be wrong but would think the first ever sold at auction period:

[yanksfan09]

I’m guessing in the neighborhood of 4-5+million, but who knows?

The Baltimore news Ruth should be the most valuable card in existence in my opinion, but there was no sale for 6 million. 1 percent of the card was offered at that valuation I suppose.

I’d love to see a Baltimore news actually hit the open market in a forum like REA and see what it would actually bring. If it was in decent shape , maybe over 6 million! It’s such a rare card.

I’d rather own this Wagner than the “psa 8”

[Steve D]

I would wager that the Wagner goes for $6M+.


Steve

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME!!

I owned this exact card in the 70's!

Mike Aronstein (of TCMA fame)whose son Andrew is a member here, turned it up on Long Island I believe. The owner would not sell it to Mike. But he mentioned that the "convention" (which is what they were called in those days) in Detroit was going on and that they had an auction there.

So Mike called Lloyd Toerpe, Jay Barry or Frank Nagy or one of the other Detroit guys running the show in 1973 and it was auctioned off there. I won it for $1,100 outbidding Joe and Karen Michalowicz. I am NOT missing any zero's.

I sold it along with the rest of my collection to Barry Halper in 1976, it was the first of three Wagner's he owned. It disappeared from the hobby, at least as far as I knew until it showed up in a Bill Goodwin auction a few years back where if memory serves it sold for $1.2 M. I asked Bill about it and he said it was consigned by a guy in Houston.

I contacted Brian at REA today and he tells me it changed ownership once since the Goodwin auction.

I'd be curious to know how it got from Halper to Houston. Most likely a trade after he picked up his second Wagner. Didn't he donate one to the HOF? I know Barry traded my Roberts, Konstanky and Stanky Topps Current All Stars for Yankee World Series rings so he did trade.

Maybe this history will tug at the heartstrings of the consignor and he will honor the $1100 I paid for it so it can go back into the hands of the first collector who owned it. 😁

Wouldn't the collector that Mike A got it from be the first who owned it?

But seriously Fred - Sorry for your pain!