T206 Honus Wagner SGC 3 What is the Over/Under

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Fred-If you don’t mind me asking, why did you sell the collection when you did? Did you just lose interest or did Halper’s bid just look too attractive. I think I’m about the same age as you and I know that I sold a coin collection at about the same time in my life.

Jay

Jay:

Halper came onto the scene out of nowhere in the early 70's and was paying three times what things were going for at the time so everyone was selling him stuff.

He lived about 20 minutes from me at the time and asked if he could come over to see my collection. When he did he asked "how much for the Wagner"? I said I'd never sell the Wagner, I'd have to sell the entire collection. He asked how much for the entire collection?

Well, in those days that never happened. I sat down and wrote out long hand everything I had. T200, T201, T205, T206, T207 complete, most Goudy sets including Lajoie, Play Balls, tons of regionals, Topps and Bowman complete except for 52 Hi #'s ( I refused to pay $3 each for them!), Exhibits, Topps test sets, uncut sheets etc. etc. Came up with a price took 15% off as was the custom in those days if you were buying something big/expensive and gave Halper the price.

Without blinking or negotiating he said "fine" and ended up paying me with quite a few postal money orders made out to me from Joe Tinker, Frank Chance. and other old players... you get the idea.

I was 26 years old, getting married, and figured it was time. No one else would have been able to buy the entire collection, so off it went. My only mistake was figuring the "current" value and not the 3X $$ Halper was paying at the time.

Saying all that, the sale allowed me a few years later to start a business that evolved into more businesses and I was able to retire at age 55.

So, I would have had to live in a tent for 45 years in order to cash in now and sell the Wagner for the Millions of dollars you all are throwing around that is making me SICK!!!

Fred

[scooter729]

Great stories, Fred - thanks for sharing. Must be quite a thrill to at least know you owned it for a few years!

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Jay:

Halper came onto the scene out of nowhere in the early 70's and was paying three times what things were going for at the time so everyone was selling him stuff.

He lived about 20 minutes from me at the time and asked if he could come over to see my collection. When he did he asked "how much for the Wagner"? I said I'd never sell the Wagner, I'd have to sell the entire collection. He asked how much for the entire collection?

Well, in those days that never happened. I sat down and wrote out long hand everything I had. T200, T201, T205, T206, T207 complete, most Goudy sets including Lajoie, Play Balls, tons of regionals, Topps and Bowman complete except for 52 Hi #'s ( I refused to pay $3 each for them!), Exhibits, Topps test sets, uncut sheets etc. etc. Came up with a price took 15% off as was the custom in those days if you were buying something big/expensive and gave Halper the price.

Without blinking or negotiating he said "fine" and ended up paying me with quite a few postal money orders made out to me from Joe Tinker, Frank Chance. and other old players... you get the idea.

I was 26 years old, getting married, and figured it was time. No one else would have been able to buy the entire collection, so off it went. My only mistake was figuring the "current" value and not the 3X $$ Halper was paying at the time.

Saying all that, the sale allowed me a few years later to start a business that evolved into more businesses and I was able to retire at age 55.

So, I would have had to live in a tent for 45 years in order to cash in now and sell the Wagner for the Millions of dollars you all are throwing around that is making me SICK!!!

Fred

Great story Fred and one of the reasons I love this sub, hands down the greatest member base. No other group even comes close. If it makes you feel any better I sold a 14CJ Wagner that would grade a 4-5 today when I was a broke 21 year old trying to make rent for $250. You do what you have to do when circumstances demand it. Congrats on owning the nicest $1110 Wagner I've ever seen.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Jay:

Halper came onto the scene out of nowhere in the early 70's and was paying three times what things were going for at the time so everyone was selling him stuff.

He lived about 20 minutes from me at the time and asked if he could come over to see my collection. When he did he asked "how much for the Wagner"? I said I'd never sell the Wagner, I'd have to sell the entire collection. He asked how much for the entire collection?

Well, in those days that never happened. I sat down and wrote out long hand everything I had. T200, T201, T205, T206, T207 complete, most Goudy sets including Lajoie, Play Balls, tons of regionals, Topps and Bowman complete except for 52 Hi #'s ( I refused to pay $3 each for them!), Exhibits, Topps test sets, uncut sheets etc. etc. Came up with a price took 15% off as was the custom in those days if you were buying something big/expensive and gave Halper the price.

Without blinking or negotiating he said "fine" and ended up paying me with quite a few postal money orders made out to me from Joe Tinker, Frank Chance. and other old players... you get the idea.

I was 26 years old, getting married, and figured it was time. No one else would have been able to buy the entire collection, so off it went. My only mistake was figuring the "current" value and not the 3X $$ Halper was paying at the time.

Saying all that, the sale allowed me a few years later to start a business that evolved into more businesses and I was able to retire at age 55.

So, I would have had to live in a tent for 45 years in order to cash in now and sell the Wagner for the Millions of dollars you all are throwing around that is making me SICK!!!

Fred

Fred: Thanks for sharing that story. As you tell it it sounds like you did just fine with that sale. That money helped kick start a career that led to what sounds like a successful life. It must have been a wonderful time to collect when you started, so much available and actual face to face interaction being required to add to your collection. I started my collecting much later in life, around 1990, but even then I remember the incredible variety of scarce cards that were available at shows. Stay well my friend and hopefully some day we run into one another.

Jay

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Saying all that, the sale allowed me a few years later to start a business that evolved into more businesses and I was able to retire at age 55.

So, I would have had to live in a tent for 45 years in order to cash in now and sell the Wagner for the Millions of dollars you all are throwing around that is making me SICK!!!
Fred

Every one of us would like to have back just about everything we ever sold in our time in the hobby. But presumably the money we got at the time served a good purpose--yours certainly did--and not one of us imagined in our wildest dreams what would happen to the market for those things. Our generation of collectors (I'm 75) have many stories similar to yours, Fred, in every genre. Things were cheap in the 1960s and 1970s, we got the thrill of putting together some amazing collections for very little, then when the market started accelerating we sold them to start businesses and families, travel, enjoy our youths, etc. How lucky we--and you--were to have had the privilege of that life experience.

[MK]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Jay:

Halper came onto the scene out of nowhere in the early 70's and was paying three times what things were going for at the time so everyone was selling him stuff.

He lived about 20 minutes from me at the time and asked if he could come over to see my collection. When he did he asked "how much for the Wagner"? I said I'd never sell the Wagner, I'd have to sell the entire collection. He asked how much for the entire collection?

Well, in those days that never happened. I sat down and wrote out long hand everything I had. T200, T201, T205, T206, T207 complete, most Goudy sets including Lajoie, Play Balls, tons of regionals, Topps and Bowman complete except for 52 Hi #'s ( I refused to pay $3 each for them!), Exhibits, Topps test sets, uncut sheets etc. etc. Came up with a price took 15% off as was the custom in those days if you were buying something big/expensive and gave Halper the price.

Without blinking or negotiating he said "fine" and ended up paying me with quite a few postal money orders made out to me from Joe Tinker, Frank Chance. and other old players... you get the idea.

I was 26 years old, getting married, and figured it was time. No one else would have been able to buy the entire collection, so off it went. My only mistake was figuring the "current" value and not the 3X $$ Halper was paying at the time.

Saying all that, the sale allowed me a few years later to start a business that evolved into more businesses and I was able to retire at age 55.

So, I would have had to live in a tent for 45 years in order to cash in now and sell the Wagner for the Millions of dollars you all are throwing around that is making me SICK!!!

Fred

Fred,
I read your story in total amazement. What a collection you had accumulated. How, if you don’t mind me asking, does a 26 year old manage to acquire all those cards? The fact you wouldn’t spend $3 for a ‘52 high number tells me you were thrifty.

[mrreality68]

slow but steady it goes up.

$3.2 million dollars (before buyers premium) a little while ago

Interesting but does this or does this nor effect the rest of the market.

I mean we know the prices have spiked especially on high end items.

What happens to the rest of the market. Will it stay at these new prices or down tick.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

slow but steady it goes up.

$3.2 million dollars (before buyers premium) a little while ago

Interesting but does this or does this nor effect the rest of the market.

I mean we know the prices have spiked especially on high end items.

What happens to the rest of the market. Will it stay at these new prices or down tick.

Hard to tell......a lot of dark money through crypto coming in on these big items.

I think long run this card will appreciate.

The rest of Vintage Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, and Jackie Centered In 6’s and above are Rock Stars.

I think lower grade will come down a lot take for examples 33 Ruth’s grades 1-5’s were nuts from Jan-April in those grades they have come back considerably.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't think the price of an ultra elite card like this affects the overall market one way or the other.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't think the price of an ultra elite card like this affects the overall market one way or the other.

I think there is some effect. I think Honus Wagner cards in general have gone up bc of the popularity of this specific Wagner, especially ones with this pose- like tip top, e90-2, w600, e103, etc. I also think that t206 in general gets a bit of a bump. The card is a t206 Honus Wagner card - that rising tide should/could/is lift all Wagner items and t206 in general. As far as the market on-whole, anytime an elite card sells and gets press, it draws attention to cards, which ultimately impacts the entire hobby in general. I don’t know that it directly makes a 1983 Tony Gwynn more valuable, but it may cause a 40 something to pull out that shoebox and get back into collecting, etc….

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I think there is some effect. I think Honus Wagner cards in general have gone up bc of the popularity of this specific Wagner, especially ones with this pose- like tip top, e90-2, w600, e103, etc. I also think that t206 in general gets a bit of a bump. The card is a t206 Honus Wagner card - that rising tide should/could/is lift all Wagner items and t206 in general. As far as the market on-whole, anytime an elite card sells and gets press, it draws attention to cards, which ultimately impacts the entire hobby in general. I don’t know that it directly makes a 1983 Tony Gwynn more valuable, but it may cause a 40 something to pull out that shoebox and get back into collecting, etc….

Who knows of course, but my belief is that only a very tiny fraction of collectors are in a position to compete for this card, that it will sell for what it sells for reasons having little or nothing to do with the overall market, and that the rest of us aren't going to be influenced one way or the other by what it sells for. I don't buy the rising tide theory. Did the off the charts sale of the recent Jordan 10 affect anything? I doubt it. And this card of course is far far rarer. Just a sui generis sale to me.