Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Circa 1954 Indians pennant, anyone know the maker?

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Circa 1954 Indians pennant, anyone know the maker?

New pickup?? That’s a great flag!

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Circa 1954 Indians pennant, anyone know the maker?

I believe this one to be by Trench based upon the dimensions, cloth material, and red spines. There's a similar graphic for the '56 NL champ Brooklyn Dodgers.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

I believe this one to be by Trench based upon the dimensions, cloth material, and red spines. There's a similar graphic for the '56 NL champ Brooklyn Dodgers.

Respectfully … I’m not so sure about that. These seem radically different than Trench as far as design, graphics, etc. Do you mean red tassels? One thing they have in common (but for one below) is colored tassels with white spine. Trench almost all have matching tassels and spine, except it seems for some in the 1962-63 range.

I believe these are all from the same company …

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Respectfully Â… IÂ’m not so sure about that. These seem radically different than Trench as far as design, graphics, etc. Do you mean red tassels? One thing they have in common (but for one below) is colored tassels with white spine. Trench almost all have matching tassels and spine, except it seems for some in the 1962-63 range.

I believe these are all from the same company Â…

Sorry: I meant red tassels, yes.

Radically different? I think itÂ’s more of a close call

Trench definitely used a white spine + colored tassels combo throughout the 1950s. You see that look on many different styles of Brooklyn Dodger pennants. But they also used the white spine + white tassel look then, too. (Even yellow spine + yellow tassels.). You are correct: by the early 1960s, at least on Los Angeles Dodgers pennants, they used red tassels + white spine + blue felt. That gave them a colorful look that of course complemented the teamÂ’s colors. I have no idea if they did that for other teams, or if it was a characteristic unique to the Dodgers.

Honestly I don’t think the color of the tassels is that helpful in ID’ing a pennant’s maker. I was more referring to the fact that your Indians pennant DID have tassels. That characteristic alone excludes WGN and ADFLAG from the discussion; and your mystery maker that we’ve all been consumed with identifying (the maker of the sliding runner series and the stiff arm footballer series — none of which featured tassels).

That really leaves Â… Trench, doesnÂ’t it? Tassels - check. Polychromatic artwork - check. Distinctive serif font - check. If the dimensions measure 8 x 26, and/or the itÂ’s made of flannel, thatÂ’s even more evidence itÂ’s likely by Trench.

Unfortunately, until we can extract the DNA from a pennant, weÂ’ll never really know no for sure who created it, right?

As to the four pennants you singled out Â… FWIW, IÂ’m confident the ca. 1950 Whiz Kids pennants is by Trench. IÂ’m on the fence as to the first Brooklyn pennant, which I think may be a phantom from 1951, perhaps? It looks like TrenchÂ’s work but IÂ’ve never seen it in person so IÂ’ll reserve judgment on that one.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Sorry: I meant red tassels, yes.

Radically different? I think itÂ’s more of a close call

Trench definitely used a white spine + colored tassels combo throughout the 1950s. You see that look on many different styles of Brooklyn Dodger pennants. But they also used the white spine + white tassel look then, too. (Even yellow spine + yellow tassels.). You are correct: by the early 1960s, at least on Los Angeles Dodgers pennants, they used red tassels + white spine + blue felt. That gave them a colorful look that of course complemented the teamÂ’s colors. I have no idea if they did that for other teams, or if it was a characteristic unique to the Dodgers.

Honestly I don’t think the color of the tassels is that helpful in ID’ing a pennant’s maker. I was more referring to the fact that your Indians pennant DID have tassels. That characteristic alone excludes WGN and ADFLAG from the discussion; and your mystery maker that we’ve all been consumed with identifying (the maker of the sliding runner series and the stiff arm footballer series — none of which featured tassels).

That really leaves Â… Trench, doesnÂ’t it? Tassels - check. Polychromatic artwork - check. Distinctive serif font - check. If the dimensions measure 8 x 26, and/or the itÂ’s made of flannel, thatÂ’s even more evidence itÂ’s likely by Trench.

Unfortunately, until we can extract the DNA from a pennant, weÂ’ll never really know no for sure who created it, right?

As to the four pennants you singled out Â… FWIW, IÂ’m confident the ca. 1950 Whiz Kids pennants is by Trench. IÂ’m on the fence as to the first Brooklyn pennant, which I think may be a phantom from 1951, perhaps? It looks like TrenchÂ’s work but IÂ’ve never seen it in person so IÂ’ll reserve judgment on that one.

Interesting. The 1954 Indians is full-size. Here’s a 1950 Trench Phillies. I don’t see anything in common here. Even the texture of the spine is different. … Can do same with the 1954 Indians … Trench made a few different versions for this season but they all share some common features. The one above just doesn’t seem to fit.

Now I agree not AdFlag or WGN, even though the latter did have tasseled pennants in the 1940s. I personally think this is another unidentified maker.

[thetahat]

This also seems to be the same maker, there are a few of these “wide scroll” pennants (Yankees, Brooklyn) right around 1949-51. I know it’s not proof, but the scroll itself and font is radically different from the known scroll design of Trench. Don’t know of any other teams. It’s why I suspect a NYC area company.

Anyway, I find this interesting and appreciate your feedback!

[Hankphenom]

You guys are amazing! Love looking at these wonderful pennants you keep coming up with.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

This also seems to be the same maker, there are a few of these “wide scroll” pennants (Yankees, Brooklyn) right around 1949-51. I know it’s not proof, but the scroll itself and font is radically different from the known scroll design of Trench. Don’t know of any other teams. It’s why I suspect a NYC area company.

Anyway, I find this interesting and appreciate your feedback!

Completely agree....

There's a mystery maker (still unidentified) who's responsible for these particular oddballs.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

This also seems to be the same maker, there are a few of these “wide scroll” pennants (Yankees, Brooklyn) right around 1949-51. I know it’s not proof, but the scroll itself and font is radically different from the known scroll design of Trench. Don’t know of any other teams. It’s why I suspect a NYC area company.

Anyway, I find this interesting and appreciate your feedback!

No disagreement here. I think this wide scroll pennant was made by AMCO, A Brooklyn based pennant maker.

[Domer05]

I appreciate your skepticism. I think the problem is the 1950 Whiz Kids pennant represents the tail end of a series Trench used for more than a decade, beginning in the early 1940s. As one would expect, pennants from this series will differ from those of the next generation.

Yours is right on the cusp of that transition from the old style to the new. Accordingly, it lacks some of the distinctive Trench characteristics we’ve come to associate with their 1950s and even 1960s offerings.

But, IMHO, that doesn’t mean it’s not by Trench. I’ve studies the old series and identified numerous instances where the supporting text (e.g., “N.Y. Yankees”) was reused on a different style pennant featuring known Trench artwork. That’s how I first made the connection.

If you apply the same logic as above, we shouldn’t be surprised to learn Trench made these. Trench was always considered an innovative company. There were even less pennant makers using polychromatic designs in the 1940s. This colorful design distinguished them from their competition; nearly all of whom were making monochrome pennants. Eventually, by the 1950s, other makers began making limited two-color pennants … but they were behind the times. In response, by the 1950s, Trench began offering team-specific pennants featuring unique artwork. We see this, for example, in their stadium pennant series. Again, nobody else was doing anything like this. Others eventually copied it … but it took some time. By the 1960s, they begin offering photo pennants, yet another innovative success that launched them ahead of their competition.

So your Whiz Kids pennant, in my eye, just happens to have been made during the transition from the old to the new style. That’s probably why it doesn’t look right, to you. But, that style, 10 years earlier, would have been cutting edge.

And, that means Trench likely made it, in my view.