THE Hall of Fame this year and next:

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Those are all a bit different than taking steroids/HGH after it's been explicitly banned and is being tested for...both from a legal and "baseball rules" standpoint (written and/or enforced).

But on the other hand...there ya go. Instruct the voters to no longer consider PED use when filling out their ballots, and we're back to the normal arguments!

Also...goat testosterone?! Dear God...that stuff is problematic enough in GOATS, never mind baseball players!

Concerning your first point I suppose your right, Iw as speaking more towards the "which players took substances" group when they played. That's just the tip of the iceberg when it came to Amphetamine abuse in baseball, people have speculated roughly half the league was on them at one point. Bowls of them were found in the Clubhouse, the notion that players, taking substances/drugs, is a recent problem is flawed.

Pud Galvin was taking Monkey Testosterone way back. Mantle was receiving injections with a concoction of "amphetamines laced with vitamins, human placenta, and eel cells" in 1961. Mantle actually ended up missing time because of it, the injection went bad and caused an abscess.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Gil Hodges and Allie Reynolds deserve to be in the HOF. I don't understand why Hodges isn't. He was a great team player (defensively and at bat). Other than Lou Gehrig....name
a (PED-free) BB player who had 7 consecutive 100+ RBI seasons (1949 - 1955) like Gil Hodges ?

Regarding Curt Schilling.....he has said some "politically incorrect" comments....SO WHAT ! His performance on the BB field, and his positive deeds (ALS charity work, etc.) off the
BB field are what really matter.

But, who am I to judge. I will leave you with a quote to consider from a man with a lot of wisdom.....

" Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go,
and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens
and creates a country where everyone lives in fear. " - - - - President Harry S. Truman


TED Z
.

Ted 100% agree with you. I think Schilling is very outspoken but there's nothing wrong with that. This is a free country, he can express whatever opinion he believes. He deserves to be in the Hall.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Seven

Concerning your first point I suppose your right, Iw as speaking more towards the "which players took substances" group when they played. That's just the tip of the iceberg when it came to Amphetamine abuse in baseball, people have speculated roughly half the league was on them at one point. Bowls of them were found in the Clubhouse, the notion that players, taking substances/drugs, is a recent problem is flawed.

Pud Galvin was taking Monkey Testosterone way back. Mantle was receiving injections with a concoction of "amphetamines laced with vitamins, human placenta, and eel cells" in 1961. Mantle actually ended up missing time because of it, the injection went bad and caused an abscess.

So, it's not that the player became less "pure" or "sportsmanlike", it's that the drugs got better?

Steroids/HGH > Greenies > Goat and Monkey juice and eels

[Ricky]

Are we really comparing amphetamines to steroids/HGH?

As far as Schilling, he has the right to say whatever he wants, like advocating the killing of journalists... and journalists, likewise, have the right to not vote for him.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Are we really comparing amphetamines to steroids/HGH?

As far as Schilling, he has the right to say whatever he wants, like advocating the killing of journalists... and journalists, likewise, have the right to not vote for him.

Do they impact a players performance in a positive way? If the answer is yes, then they are a PED, If PED users are considered cheaters than I don't understand why we absolve the guys who used one type of drug and condemn the other set of guys that used a different type of drug

And I wouldn't normally have any issue with this, but the same writers that are keeping Bonds and Clemens out are the ones that voted for them for MVP and Cy Young. Plus Selig fully knew what was going on in the sport, profited from it, yet condemns the players after the fact.

[clydepepper]

Excuse me if I didn't read all the previous posts to see if anyone already said this (I'm old and it's late here) ...

I think almost all of us believe the current system is bad.

______________________________________________

Why not split the vote between all former players and the baseball writers?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????

Or...even...split three ways and include the fans.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????

Of course, the candidates would still have to qualify as they do now...10 years of service and a post-career wait time...so that their last years don't weigh too much on everyone's mind (which, I believe, is why the wait period is there now.)

I realize this is kind of revolutionary, but it's time for a change.



.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Excuse me if I didn't read all the previous posts to see if anyone already said this (I'm old and it's late here) ...

I think almost all of us believe the current system is bad.

______________________________________________

Why not split the vote between all former players and the baseball writers?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????

Or...even...split three ways and include the fans.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????

Of course, the candidates would still have to qualify as they do now...10 years of service and a post-career wait time...so that their last years don't weigh too much on everyone's mind (which, I believe, is why the wait period is there now.)

I realize this is kind of revolutionary, but it's time for a change.



.

No, the only system that is bad is the Veterans Commitees. The BBWAA has done a pretty good job in electing worthy players. It is the Veterans Committees with players voting that has elected guys like Harold Baines, Bud Selig, Rube Marquard, Tommy McCarthy, Rick Ferrell, George Kelly, etc. Why would they want to give them more voting power?

[Pat R]

So based on the HOF standards any player on the 2017/18 Astros roster
shouldn't be eligible for the HOF correct?

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by rats60

No, the only system that is bad is the Veterans Commitees. The BBWAA has done a pretty good job in electing worthy players. It is the Veterans Committees with players voting that has elected guys like Harold Baines, Bud Selig, Rube Marquard, Tommy McCarthy, Rick Ferrell, George Kelly, etc. Why would they want to give them more voting power?

Thanks for reminding me...as I said, it was late and I'm old...should be so near a keyboard that late.

It has to do with exactly who is on the veterans committee...Frankie Frisch got a lot of his teammates in (Haines, Lindstrom...to name a few that did not belong)- I don't like Tony Larussa being on it either.

.

.

[Scocs]

Again, how and why is Selig in?

[Ricky]

Lost all respect for Selig when he didn’t step in and protect Aaron’s record by stopping Bonds. He damn well knew what bonds was doing.