THE Hall of Fame this year and next:

Is anyone surprised by any of this? This day and age where people are completely cancelling out founders, leaders and people who accomplished great things for our country and people? People who by any standards were flawed and not perfect? People who lived during a time when social culture was different. The game is no different. People and players aren’t less perfect and never will be. The lines will just be drawn differently to allow some other imperfect people to reach their goals. This country used to be about equal opportunity based on your efforts. It’s becoming more about equal outcomes with less effort and a whole bunch of asterisks added at the end. In other words if you have it I should have it. If I can’t have it then either should you no matter how hard you worked for it at your job or on the field. I’m referring more to schilling here. All around not a perfect person but either we’re a lot of greats. His efforts on the field deserve recognition though.

[Seven]

The Hall is a Museum that honors baseball History. We try to make history as objective as possible. To not enshrine the players, that have accomplished some of the greatest feats in the game's history, aided or not by the use of PED's does not paint the whole picture.

The "Character and Integrity" Clause seems to only apply to certain players but not others. Put Bonds and Clemens in, Throw an asterisk on their plaque or put it in a wing for PED users, but they belong in the Hall of Fame, in my opinion.

Well said. Agree 100 percent. I Probably shouldn’t be posting while fighting COVID. This stuff is a beast.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Seven

The Hall is a Museum that honors baseball History. We try to make history as objective as possible. To not enshrine the players, that have accomplished some of the greatest feats in the game's history, aided or not by the use of PED's does not paint the whole picture.

The "Character and Integrity" Clause seems to only apply to certain players but not others. Put Bonds and Clemens in, Throw an asterisk on their plaque or put it in a wing for PED users, but they belong in the Hall of Fame, in my opinion.

There is a display on steroids at the HOF. Bonds, Clemens and other steroids users are part of that. There is no need to honor them with a plaque.

[packs]

Who hasn't had the character clause appropriately applied to them? Popular answer is usually Ty Cobb but in the interest of transparency let's get it out there that Stump's book was a work of fiction and nothing common knowledge about Cobb is true.

[clydepepper]

I'll repeat my plea for the three Cubans to join Tony Perez.

Minoso, Tiant and Oliva.

.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I'll repeat my plea for the three Cubans to join Tony Perez.

Minoso, Tiant and Oliva.

.

While I agree with nobody being voted into the Hall this year (by the writers), I do think those three fellows are "Hall Worthy" via the Veterans Committee. Especially Minoso.

Of all the names being thrown around in this thread, I most root for Hodges and Minoso to get in some day. Buck O'Neil is another (who's not yet been mentioned here, unless I missed it). I like to look at the Players' entire body of work, instead of just stats. Statistics do not tell the whole story.

[ejharrington]

If Curt is on the ballot next year, he gets my vote.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by perezfan

While I agree with nobody being voted into the Hall this year (by the writers), I do think those three fellows are "Hall Worthy" via the Veterans Committee. Especially Minoso.

Of all the names being thrown around in this thread, I most root for Hodges and Minoso to get in some day. Buck O'Neil is another (who's not yet been mentioned here, unless I missed it). I like to look at the Players' entire body of work, instead of just stats. Statistics do not tell the whole story.

I'd agree with that as well. Would love for Dick Allen to get some consideration, and Gil Hodges as well. I think Hodges can get in through the Golden Era Committee

[Seven]

Originally Posted by rats60

There is a display on steroids at the HOF. Bonds, Clemens and other steroids users are part of that. There is no need to honor them with a plaque.

I've seen the display, It's nice. But why do we draw lines in the Sand with Clemens and Bonds when we didn't for Ivan Rodriguez? There are confirmed PED users in the Hall already. Why do they get to stay in, when they cheated the game, just like Bonds and Clemens did?

I just hate the "Holier than thou" attitude the Writers take. Clemens and Bonds statistically are two of the greatest players to step on a Baseball field. That will never change, the numbers are set in stone. You stick an asterisk on the Plaque and it ensures that while they made the Hall, that they cheated and that will be apart of their legacy until the end of time.

This is just my opinion, we can agree to disagree though.

[triwak]

I'm disappointed by the lack of inductions, but for more personal (and somewhat sentimental) card-related reasons. There's still a small brick and mortar card shop in my town, very near my favorite watering hole. Every January, I would go down to the shop, pick up the latest Hall inductees (usually for a buck or two), and march over to the bar to show them off to the 3 or 4 friends who are baseball fans (and drink pretty much daily)! This would invariably lead to discussions like we're having here, and more importantly, predictions about the upcoming season, Spring training, player transactions, etc. Well... none of that this year. The pub has closed (at least for now), no one's really out and about anyway, the start of the season may still be in flux, and now no HOFers to add to my collection. Sorry for the sappiness, but this has become a ritual that I really enjoy. Plus, I will be moving to another state soon, so this may have been the last brick and mortar purchase ever? We'll see, I guess. And for what it's worth, I would have voted for Schilling, Bonds, Clemens, and Rolen.

[Mike D.]

Are there “confirmed” PED users in the hall, or “presumed”? I don’t recall Rodriquez failing a test. Unless we’re taking anything Jose Canseco said as “proof”.

I hate that the HOF discussion has come down to discussions of "back ache" and assumptions of guilt or innocence.

Can steroid use cause back-ache? Sure...but you know what else can? Squatting in the summer hear for the better part of 3 hours on a dusty field while wearing polyester.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Are there “confirmed” PED users in the hall, or “presumed”? I don’t recall Rodriquez failing a test. Unless we’re taking anything Jose Canseco said as “proof”.

I hate that the HOF discussion has come down to discussions of "back ache" and assumptions of guilt or innocence.

Can steroid use cause back-ache? Sure...but you know what else can? Squatting in the summer hear for the better part of 3 hours on a dusty field while wearing polyester.

Rodriguez is "presumed" Frank Thomas made some comments about him a while back, but as for confirmed players that have taken PED's that are in the Hall:

Babe Ruth had Goat Testosterone Injected
Mantle, Aaron and Schmidt: All used Amphetamines at least once.
Koufax abused Pain Pills to pitch
Goose Gossage used Amphetamines as well.

Doesn't matter how little or how often they did it, they used at least once.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Wimberleycardcollector

Is anyone surprised by any of this? This day and age where people are completely cancelling out founders, leaders and people who accomplished great things for our country and people? People who by any standards were flawed and not perfect? People who lived during a time when social culture was different. The game is no different. People and players aren’t less perfect and never will be. The lines will just be drawn differently to allow some other imperfect people to reach their goals. This country used to be about equal opportunity based on your efforts. It’s becoming more about equal outcomes with less effort and a whole bunch of asterisks added at the end. In other words if you have it I should have it. If I can’t have it then either should you no matter how hard you worked for it at your job or on the field. I’m referring more to schilling here. All around not a perfect person but either we’re a lot of greats. His efforts on the field deserve recognition though.

Well said. Let's start delving into the lives of the people who vote on the Hall and see what social impropriety they may have committed in their past and judge them accordingly. For that matter let's judge the judgers on their life history and punish them if we think they have done bad.