PSA 9 52 Topps Mantle sells for $5.2M

[campyfan39]

I have three teenage sons and sadly only one is slightly interested in cards at the moment but all three almost exclusively listen to music from the 60’s-80’s and talk about history and the past with me constantly. Interestingly enough my 17 year old broached the subject of cards with me today because he heard about the sale of the 52 Mantle. He figured I had one. Hahaha. I said son if I had one we would be living a lot differently haha.

Originally Posted by packs

No disrespect but this perspective is as old as it is stale. Literally every generation has said the same thing about the next, mostly because it appreciates things differently and that has always made an old person mad for whatever reason there is to be mad that young people's opinions are different.

My point was about hobby trends. There is no reason whatsoever for the 52 Mantle to be the card it is. Boomers have just decided it is so. But you can't depend on that notion continuing forever when you're talking about a crop of collectors who will have their own version of Mantle to collect (Mike Trout).

We're already seeing collecting trends change, probably forever. Whereas the Topps Rookie was an all important card in the past, now it is Bowman that is king. Again, simple example of a widening trend. Look at the big cards of guys who came into their own as my generation grew up:

Griffey - it's Upper Deck, not Topps
Jeter - it's SP, not Topps
Ichiro - it's SPX, not Topps
Pujols - it's Bowman, not Topps
Trout - it's Bowman, not Topps

[cardsagain74]

While I've always been all for disputing that "the new generation sucks worse than mine" fallacy, the virtual technology of the last 20 years is bound to cause differences though. Today's kids and teenagers won't be worse (or better) people than prior generations, but they aren't growing up with the same level of in-person contact as everyone else prior. That's bound to cause some major sociological changes going forward.

And as far as the complaints about high card values: sure you can see the "I can't buy what I want anymore" side, but still.....turning a sharp increase in your possessions' worth into such a negative is unreal. That takes the grass is always greener cliche to a level I've never seen.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

While I've always been all for disputing that "the new generation sucks worse than mine" fallacy, the virtual technology of the last 20 years is bound to cause differences though. Today's kids and teenagers won't be worse (or better) people than prior generations, but they aren't growing up with the same level of in-person contact as everyone else prior. That's bound to cause some major sociological changes going forward.

Exactly. I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, just that I think it is a thing. The virtually endless supply of media and current popular culture content almost by definition leaves little room or need to turn to pop culture material from the past. As a general rule, that is - Campyfan seems to be doing well in bucking that dynamic with his kids.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

I have three teenage sons and sadly only one is slightly interested in cards at the moment but all three almost exclusively listen to music from the 60’s-80’s and talk about history and the last with me constantly. Interestingly enough my 17 year old broached the subject of cards with me today because he heard about the sale of the 52 Mantle. He figured I had one. Hahaha. I said son if I had one we would be living a lot differently hahha.

I think it's also dependant on how the kids are raised, and what they're taught to value. I'm learning a lot from this thread (and filing it away for future notice)

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think it's also dependant on how the kids are raised, and what they're taught to value.

Well said. Interestingly, my ten year old son and I just minutes ago got off a long call with a seventy-nine year old gentleman who pulled our 1952 Topps Mantle from its pack, way back in the Summer of '52, using money earned from his paper route. He bought the pack at a tobacco shop in Illinois.

My son and I were hanging on every word the original owner said, learning exactly where our Mantle card came from and how things were then, what his life was like, how into baseball he was, etc.

How many times do we collectors look at a card in our hands and wonder to ourselves about its journey through time to us? My son and I discussed how rare and special it is to trace a card's lineage like that. The discussion even ranged to the advent of TPG grading, and how the owner and his own son drove the card up to PSA some years ago for grading (I can also add both its owners find the arbitrary grading rules irksome LOL!).

Tangentially, a work colleague sent me a holiday gift this year; it is a coffee table book about the baseball HOF. My son and I cracked it open, and who was staring at us on the first page picture? The Mick. Of course we then went through all the other greats.

When I was a kid, my parents didn't teach me about Ruth or DiMaggio or Mantle or any of the others, and yet I still came to revere their cards— my cousins got me into collecting, and from there I just found the old greats. So one doesn't even necessarily need a parent to find their way to the classics. And one doesn't need to have seen them play either; that is what makes them legendary figures— that they existed in an often romanticized past world. They take on a more majestic character and mystique that way, actually.

I think music is an interesting analogy— someone can get into any modern artist, and if they are intellectually curious they will eventually delve into that artist's influences, roots, and samples, and journey onward from there.

[Exhibitman]

So true, Matt: once you get going you find the history and then you find the greats. I never saw Babe Ruth play, I never saw Jim Brown crush a defense, and I never saw Joe Louis box, but I regard them as highly as Hank Aaron, Joe Montana, Manny Pacquiao, or anyone else whose career I was able to follow first-hand.

[sforaker]

Great story Matt re: talking to the owner of your 52 Mantle gem and tracing its lineage! Hope you and “the Don” are well.

[campyfan39]

HOLY COW that is incredible. Please post (maybe separate thread) of how you got it and some of what the man said to you and your son.

Andrew, thank you! I realize I am very, very blessed as all three of my boys are growing into wonderful young men so far (fingers and toes crossed it continues).

As for the 1952 Mick, my late father had a chance to buy one that was centered and crease free back in 1988. We were at the beach in NC and travelled almost an hour to a card shop in Wilmington (that's how card crazy we were). It was the first time we had ever seen a Mantle rookie and it was like we had seen one of the seven wonders of the world or something.

The dealer had it priced at 1K but offered it to my Dad for $900. He would even take a check! My Mom urged Dad to buy it saying "You will never have a chance again." He just couldn't do it. We had never even spent $100 on a single card before......if only. Dad was a postal worker and Mom a nurse (blue collar all the way and now my wife is a teacher and I am a preacher haha) so to Dad that was way too much to spend for a card. Dad passed too early (54 years old) and Mom and I still talk about that card. The mantle rookie is just magic. Always will be. I remember buying the topps book in the picture I included. I can't believe Dad pulled the trigger for the book (thanks Mom) but we had never even seen most of those high number 52's. Happy collecting guys!

Originally Posted by MattyC

Well said. Interestingly, my ten year old son and I just minutes ago got off a long call with a seventy-nine year old gentleman who pulled our 1952 Topps Mantle from its pack, way back in the Summer of '52, using money earned from his paper route. He bought the pack at a tobacco shop in Illinois.

My son and I were hanging on every word the original owner said, learning exactly where our Mantle card came from and how things were then, what his life was like, how into baseball he was, etc.

How many times do we collectors look at a card in our hands and wonder to ourselves about its journey through time to us? My son and I discussed how rare and special it is to trace a card's lineage like that. The discussion even ranged to the advent of TPG grading, and how the owner and his own son drove the card up to PSA some years ago for grading (I can also add both its owners find the arbitrary grading rules irksome LOL!).

Tangentially, a work colleague sent me a holiday gift this year; it is a coffee table book about the baseball HOF. My son and I cracked it open, and who was staring at us on the first page picture? The Mick. Of course we then went through all the other greats.

When I was a kid, my parents didn't teach me about Ruth or DiMaggio or Mantle or any of the others, and yet I still came to revere their cards— my cousins got me into collecting, and from there I just found the old greats. So one doesn't even necessarily need a parent to find their way to the classics. And one doesn't need to have seen them play either; that is what makes them legendary figures— that they existed in an often romanticized past world. They take on a more majestic character and mystique that way, actually.

I think music is an interesting analogy— someone can get into any modern artist, and if they are intellectually curious they will eventually delve into that artist's influences, roots, and samples, and journey onward from there.

[ASF123]

Interestingly, my ten year old son and I just minutes ago got off a long call with a seventy-nine year old gentleman who pulled our 1952 Topps Mantle from its pack, way back in the Summer of '52, using money earned from his paper route. He bought the pack at a tobacco shop in Illinois.

My son and I were hanging on every word the original owner said, learning exactly where our Mantle card came from and how things were then, what his life was like, how into baseball he was, etc.

How many times do we collectors look at a card in our hands and wonder to ourselves about its journey through time to us? My son and I discussed how rare and special it is to trace a card's lineage like that. The discussion even ranged to the advent of TPG grading, and how the owner and his own son drove the card up to PSA some years ago for grading (I can also add both its owners find the arbitrary grading rules irksome LOL!).

What a great story, Matt! Out of curiosity, how were you able to get in touch with the original owner?

When I was a kid, my parents didn't teach me about Ruth or DiMaggio or Mantle or any of the others, and yet I still came to revere their cards— my cousins got me into collecting, and from there I just found the old greats. So one doesn't even necessarily need a parent to find their way to the classics.

Likewise. A friend came over one day in 1986 and randomly brought a box of baseball cards, which I had never known existed. I asked my mom to buy me a few packs, and I was hooked. I remember having a hardcover book with a color photo and a page or two of info on all of the Hall of Famers, and I probably started liking older cards through that. A couple of older cousins had some early/mid '70s cards and would give me some every now and then. I learned about the players and the cards at the same time - I would look at my Becketts and know the key cards from each year, and learn about players that way.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

I have three teenage sons and sadly only one is slightly interested in cards at the moment but all three almost exclusively listen to music from the 60’s-80’s and talk about history and the past with me constantly. Interestingly enough my 17 year old broached the subject of cards with me today because he heard about the sale of the 52 Mantle. He figured I had one. Hahaha. I said son if I had one we would be living a lot differently haha.

This.

I think alot of people posting in this thread don't actually have teenagers/millenials in the family.

My daughter is 18. As opposed to being disconnected from the past, the internet has made it possible for her to know more words to Fleetwood Mac songs than I do, and at least as good a hold on 80's rock/pop as I do which happened in my late teens.
She's also watched a tonne of old tv shows along the way, Full House etc. and wears high waisted bellbottom jeans by choice.

My son will be 17 in March, similarly knows way more music than you'd ever guess from Grunge to 80's metal and funk, and even threw on a Wham song the other day and jammed to it in the car. I almost cried laughing through my efforts to belt it out alongside him.
He loves animae and says he's learned a tonne about what's important from these Japanese storytells, as well as all kinds of other interesting stuff.

Sure kids today may socialize differently, or seemingly not value what we value, but that's largely because we are seldom let in to their world. They see us as old, just as I saw my Mum and Dad as old.

Neither of my kids like cards, but they like money and like the idea of owning something of worth down the track. I don't care at all as long as they love us and are good hearts.

Think waaaaay to many generalizations get made about todays youth because they communicate so differently and often remotely.

Oh, and I love the rise and rise of sports cards.
I bought some when everyone in the early 2000's was saying it was nuts to do so, that the opportunity of the 80's had gone and everything was overpriced.
Am totally happy for a 67' muscle car to be worth a million dollars, and a 52 Topps Mantle similarly to have desirability and high end worth.
Don't want to spend big money? There are plenty of 52' Topps cards you can buy cheap and even collect most of your team that way.
Not everyone gets to have a 52' Mantle because they've somehow earned the right though their collecting chops, ALL highly desired cards have carried a significant premium which is why even back in the day people wouldn't shell out what would now be considered peanuts for them.
The opportunity is always NOW.
Later is good for regrets.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

This.

I think alot of people posting in this thread don't actually have teenagers/millenials in the family.

My daughter is 18. As opposed to being disconnected from the past, the internet has made it possible for her to know more words to Fleetwood Mac songs than I do, and at least as good a hold on 80's rock/pop as I do which happened in my late teens.
She's also watched a tonne of old tv shows along the way, Full House etc. and wears high waisted bellbottom jeans by choice.

My son will be 17 in March, similarly knows way more music than you'd ever guess from Grunge to 80's metal and funk, and even threw on a Wham song the other day and jammed to it in the car. I almost cried laughing through my efforts to belt it out alongside him.
He loves animae and says he's learned a tonne about what's important from these Japanese storytells, as well as all kinds of other interesting stuff.

Sure kids today may socialize differently, or seemingly not value what we value, but that's largely because we are seldom let in to their world. They see us as old, just as I saw my Mum and Dad as old.

Neither of my kids like cards, but they like money and like the idea of owning something of worth down the track. I don't care at all as long as they love us and are good hearts.

Think waaaaay to many generalizations get made about todays youth because they communicate so differently and often remotely.

Oh, and I love the rise and rise of sports cards.
I bought some when everyone in the early 2000's was saying it was nuts to do so, that the opportunity of the 80's had gone and everything was overpriced.
Am totally happy for a 67' muscle car to be worth a million dollars, and a 52 Topps Mantle similarly to have desirability and high end worth.
Don't want to spend big money? There are plenty of 52' Topps cards you can buy cheap and even collect most of your team that way.
Not everyone gets to have a 52' Mantle because they've somehow earned the right though their collecting chops, ALL highly desired cards have carried a significant premium which is why even back in the day people wouldn't shell out what would now be considered peanuts for them.
The opportunity is always NOW.
Later is good for regrets.

With all due respect, the same can be said the other way around.
Those commenting on how wonderful and great the youth of today is usually comes from only those with kids.
Once you have children, your judgement of course becomes extremely partial and biased, and understandably so.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

With all due respect, the same can be said the other way around.
Those commenting on how wonderful and great the youth of today is usually comes from only those with kids.
Once you have children, your judgement of course becomes extremely partial and biased, and understandably so.

Uhm, yes, it really does help to formulate comment on children if you actually have them and have experience more significant than seeing them wander around a shopping mall.

They are definitely not all wonderful and great, however in particular the observation that they are disconnected or unknowing of recent history and the past is not particularly accurate in my experience.
My kids are not unicorns in their knowledge and tastes in music, in fact I would make the crazy generalization that no generation has ever had more eclectic and more rounded taste and knowledge of music genres.
That is largely based on hearing their jams coming from their rooms, ear pods, and pounding car chasis over the last 5-10 years.

I would also offer the following. While many kids today don't verbalize or make great conversationalists, that doesn't mean they aren't observing and contextualizing and sharing those thoughts amongst eachother.

Don't mistake a lack of interest in talking with their folks or to other random adults with lack of awareness.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Uhm, yes, it really does help to formulate comment on children if you actually have them and have experience more significant than seeing them wander around a shopping mall.

They are definitely not all wonderful and great, however in particular the observation that they are disconnected or unknowing of recent history and the past is not particularly accurate in my experience.
My kids are not unicorns in their knowledge and tastes in music, in fact I would make the crazy generalization that no generation has ever had more eclectic and more rounded taste and knowledge of music genres.
That is largely based on hearing their jams coming from their rooms, ear pods, and pounding car chasis over the last 5-10 years.

I would also offer the following. While many kids today don't verbalize or make great conversationalists, that doesn't mean they aren't observing and contextualizing and sharing those thoughts amongst eachother.

Don't mistake a lack of interest in talking with their folks or to other random adults with lack of awareness.

Very well said, They often have many interesting an unique perspectives to offer on really everything. I will say this generation seems to certainly be the most politically active/informed that I've come across. Always fighting for a cause of some kind.

And yes a lot of times, they don't verbalize their interests unless they suddenly discover that you also have said interests. They are extremely aware and impressionable of everything going on around them!

[packs]

Why is everyone talking about being a kid like you weren't one too. I highly doubt any of you (or at least for your sake I hope this is not true for you) emulated or felt encouraged to mirror your parents. Where did your fire go that you are now talking about how kids don't appreciate XYZ? I'll tell you where it went, you got old and became your parents, the single worst thing that the teenage mind can fathom. And now you're falling further down the rabbit hole as you get older until you wake up one day and realize you're wearing the same pajamas your dad did when he woke up at night to ask you to turn down the stereo.

Some of us were cool once, I'm sure. How many adults did you find yourself wanting to engage in great conversations with? The great conversations were reserved for your buddies. What an odd view of youth.

[68Hawk]

And because every post should include a pic....
When I bought my wife her engagement diamond back in 2001, she said I should have my own special engagement 'thing' as well.
Within a couple days I found this guy, sitting in a GAI 2.5 holder. They were super fresh to TPG at the time and I thought there was an excellent chance the card was fine and had just found it's way in to their holders to maximize grade.
Well, it was my kind of 'great looking for the grade' card and every cent we could afford (sort of afford ) at 4K. She didn't blink, kissed me, said happy engagement and told me to hit the bid button with 10 seconds left on the ebay sale.
Probably the only card I could never sell, even though I have promised myself that all my cards should get passed along to the kids where they can maximize the profit by benefiting from inheritance treatment of such valuables.
May it be worth $200,000 one day and buy them something wonderful that they can enjoy as much as I enjoy this piece of colorized cardboard.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Uhm, yes, it really does help to formulate comment on children if you actually have them and have experience more significant than seeing them wander around a shopping mall.

They are definitely not all wonderful and great, however in particular the observation that they are disconnected or unknowing of recent history and the past is not particularly accurate in my experience.
My kids are not unicorns in their knowledge and tastes in music, in fact I would make the crazy generalization that no generation has ever had more eclectic and more rounded taste and knowledge of music genres.
That is largely based on hearing their jams coming from their rooms, ear pods, and pounding car chasis over the last 5-10 years.

I would also offer the following. While many kids today don't verbalize or make great conversationalists, that doesn't mean they aren't observing and contextualizing and sharing those thoughts amongst eachother.

Don't mistake a lack of interest in talking with their folks or to other random adults with lack of awareness.

Yeah, formulating an opinion is great, but hearing the same old song and dance about how everyone finds their own children to be something so utterly special and worth mentioning to others ad nauseam is tiresome.

They're your kids, so surprise surprise, OF COURSE they're special little angels that are misunderstood and able to do anything and everything.

I don't share that bias. I actually judge others on what they say and do, something most parents cannot objectively do about their own children.

Sorry for being honest, but we obviously won't agree.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Yeah, formulating an opinion is great, but hearing the same old song and dance about how everyone finds their own children to be something so utterly special and worth mentioning to others ad nauseam is tiresome.

They're your kids, so surprise surprise, OF COURSE they're special little angels that are misunderstood and able to do anything and everything.

I don't share that bias. I actually judge others on what they say and do, something most parents cannot objectively do about their own children.

Sorry for being honest, but we obviously won't agree.

I wonder if your parents ever found you special and worth mentioning grouchy pants?

Ad nauseam??? Not sure we hear too much about eachothers children on this site, I was using mine not to gloat but to give reference to ones I know, see, hear, watch in concert with others, and have done so for hundreds of thousands of hours up close over 18 years.

I know, terrible lack of perspective from your point of view.
Strange how parents with such experience must be terrible 'experts' at such opinions whereas gaining similar experience in other endeavors rates as expertise.

LOL, says this 52 year old man.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

I wonder if your parents ever found you special and worth mentioning grouchy pants?

Ad nauseam??? Not sure we hear too much about eachothers children on this site, I was using mine not to gloat but to give reference to ones I know, see, hear, watch in concert with others, and have done so for hundreds of thousands of hours up close over 18 years.

I know, terrible lack of perspective from your point of view.
Strange how parents with such experience must be terrible 'experts' at such opinions whereas gaining similar experience in other endeavors rates as expertise.

LOL, says this 52 year old man.

Uhhh, yeah, people who are in a cult also have all the first-hand expertise in the world, but NO ONE would ever expect a fair and honest judgement of said cult from them

Thinking your objective about your own children instead of admitting and accepting your utter bias... now THAT is LOL!

[packs]

It's also kind of strange that the measure of a well rounded person is interest in music and television shows from the 80s.

I mean, come on. Have you forgotten the best years of your life already? I highly doubt there are many boomers on the board who were sitting down with grand pappy to listen to some Cole Porter 78s on the old Vitrola. Or went with memaw to check out some silent films while everyone else was seeing Marlo Brando and John Wayne movies.

Wake up, guys. You're old and uncool. It happens. But there's no reason to disparage people who are young and cool just because you aren't. That's where you can break the cycle.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

This.

I think alot of people posting in this thread don't actually have teenagers/millenials in the family.

My daughter is 18. As opposed to being disconnected from the past, the internet has made it possible for her to know more words to Fleetwood Mac songs than I do, and at least as good a hold on 80's rock/pop as I do which happened in my late teens.
She's also watched a tonne of old tv shows along the way, Full House etc. and wears high waisted bellbottom jeans by choice.

My son will be 17 in March, similarly knows way more music than you'd ever guess from Grunge to 80's metal and funk, and even threw on a Wham song the other day and jammed to it in the car. I almost cried laughing through my efforts to belt it out alongside him.
He loves animae and says he's learned a tonne about what's important from these Japanese storytells, as well as all kinds of other interesting stuff.

Sure kids today may socialize differently, or seemingly not value what we value, but that's largely because we are seldom let in to their world. They see us as old, just as I saw my Mum and Dad as old.

Neither of my kids like cards, but they like money and like the idea of owning something of worth down the track. I don't care at all as long as they love us and are good hearts.

Think waaaaay to many generalizations get made about todays youth because they communicate so differently and often remotely.

Oh, and I love the rise and rise of sports cards.
I bought some when everyone in the early 2000's was saying it was nuts to do so, that the opportunity of the 80's had gone and everything was overpriced.
Am totally happy for a 67' muscle car to be worth a million dollars, and a 52 Topps Mantle similarly to have desirability and high end worth.
Don't want to spend big money? There are plenty of 52' Topps cards you can buy cheap and even collect most of your team that way.
Not everyone gets to have a 52' Mantle because they've somehow earned the right though their collecting chops, ALL highly desired cards have carried a significant premium which is why even back in the day people wouldn't shell out what would now be considered peanuts for them.
The opportunity is always NOW.
Later is good for regrets.

Again I think this is very fair point, I think all of our perspectives are different though, when I was making my comments on how I feel about today's teenagers, it was solely based off the groups of Teenagers I work with. Again I think it's all about how you raise them, and what you teach them. I didn't intend for it to be a blanket, be all end all statement. Sure there are kids that appreciate the older aspects of Americana. I'm on the younger side and my tastes certainly veer that way as well, again I strongly think it's about how you were raised and what exactly you were taught to value, and what you were exposed to as a Child.

EDIT:

I saw this article in the Journal. Slightly Relevant to our recent discussions!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-we-...DUVlmxKwXvj7Ek

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Seven

Again I think this is very fair point, I think all of our perspectives are different though, when I was making my comments on how I feel about today's teenagers, it was solely based off the groups of Teenagers I work with. Again I think it's all about how you raise them, and what you teach them. I didn't intend for it to be a blanket, be all end all statement. Sure there are kids that appreciate the older aspects of Americana. I'm on the younger side and my tastes certainly veer that way as well, again I strongly think it's about how you were raised and what exactly you were taught to value, and what you were exposed to as a Child.

EDIT:

I saw this article in the Journal. Slightly Relevant to our recent discussions!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-we-...DUVlmxKwXvj7Ek

I absolutely hear you, and understand that 'teenagers' aren't a monolith....but if you're 'working' with them you are having an entirely different experience than being able to eavesdrop on their lives when they aren't in a controlled setting, or perhaps having the time, patience and relationship to prise interesting tidbits when they least expect it or are resistant to it.

I can't say I have more than a perfunctory relationship to ANY of my kids friends, they mostly see me as just a resident head of salt and pepper hair they walk past on the way to my kids rooms or basement.
But on semi regular occasion I've been given glimpses into their thinking by listening casually from afar or getting some thoughts from my kids about what they talk about - and there's a whole different world going on when they are with their peers.

I think that's always important to remember when making characterizations about a generation as each generations seems want to do about the previous.