PSA 9 52 Topps Mantle sells for $5.2M

[packs]

It's not so much about boomers dying as it is where the taste of collectors is heading. The prior generation had a huge appreciation for certain players and certain sets. You cannot say that those interests will hold when the modern market is evolving so quickly and steers collectors away from those interests.

For example, and as a microcosm of changing hobby appetites, the complete set has taken a back seat to the insert.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by packs

It's not so much about boomers dying as it is where the taste of collectors is heading. The prior generation had a huge appreciation for certain players and certain sets. You cannot say that those interests will hold when the modern market is evolving so quickly and steers collectors away from those interests.

For example, and as a microcosm of changing hobby appetites, the complete set has taken a back seat to the insert.

This seems plausible to me. I'm 44, and our generation by and large had some connection to the previous one - the bands they listened to, the players they watched, etc. The Beatles and the Stones were still a part of our world, as were Mickey, Willie and Hank.

I don't get that sense from the next generation. It seems like the link to the past has been pretty much severed, and things from before their lifetimes hold very little interest or relevance. Of course this is a huge generalization, but I do think there's something to it. I would imagine the pace of technological change has a lot to do with it.

EDIT: I thought of another example - TV shows. When I was growing up, reruns of shows from the ‘50s and ‘60s were common on networks like Nickelodeon. I don’t think that happens much now, what with the massive amounts of new content available. I know Friends is still popular with young people, but I think that’s the standard nostalgia for things from their childhood, rather than something being relevant that came before their lifetimes.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by ASF123

This seems plausible to me. I'm 44, and our generation by and large had some connection to the previous one - the bands they listened to, the players they watched, etc. The Beatles and the Stones were still a part of our world, as were Mickey, Willie and Hank.

I don't get that sense from the next generation. It seems like the link to the past has been pretty much severed, and things from before their lifetimes hold very little interest or relevance. Of course this is a huge generalization, but I do think there's something to it. I would imagine the pace of technological change has a lot to do with it.

EDIT: I thought of another example - TV shows. When I was growing up, reruns of shows from the ‘50s and ‘60s were common on networks like Nickelodeon. I don’t think that happens much now, what with the massive amounts of new content available. I know Friends is still popular with young people, but I think that’s the standard nostalgia for things from their childhood, rather than something being relevant that came before their lifetimes.

I think that's a very accurate description. Most of the Millennial and Post Millennial generations are very much only concerned with the "Here and Now." It's certainly a cultural shift, I blame social media partially for it. The only History they seem concerned with are things that happened right around the time they were born, or "manufactured Nostalgia" as I like to call it. We see this with certain brands or clothing items taking off after appearing in a Television show. It's a generalization sure, but I'd say 9/10 teenagers I work with fit this mold.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think that's a very accurate description. Most of the Millennial and Post Millennial generations are very much only concerned with the "Here and Now." It's certainly a cultural shift, I blame social media partially for it. The only History they seem concerned with are things that happened right around the time they were born, or "manufactured Nostalgia" as I like to call it. We see this with certain brands or clothing items taking off after appearing in a Television show. It's a generalization sure, but I'd say 9/10 teenagers I work with fit this mold.

No disrespect but this perspective is as old as it is stale. Literally every generation has said the same thing about the next, mostly because it appreciates things differently and that has always made an old person mad for whatever reason there is to be mad that young people's opinions are different.

My point was about hobby trends. There is no reason whatsoever for the 52 Mantle to be the card it is. Boomers have just decided it is so. But you can't depend on that notion continuing forever when you're talking about a crop of collectors who will have their own version of Mantle to collect (Mike Trout).

We're already seeing collecting trends change, probably forever. Whereas the Topps Rookie was an all important card in the past, now it is Bowman that is king. Again, simple example of a widening trend. Look at the big cards of guys who came into their own as my generation grew up:

Griffey - it's Upper Deck, not Topps
Jeter - it's SP, not Topps
Ichiro - it's SPX, not Topps
Pujols - it's Bowman, not Topps
Trout - it's Bowman, not Topps

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by packs

No disrespect but this perspective is as old as it is stale. Literally every generation has said the same thing about the next, mostly because it appreciates things differently and that has always made an old person mad for whatever reason there is to be mad that young people's opinions are different.

My point was about hobby trends. There is no reason whatsoever for the 52 Mantle to be the card it is. Boomers have just decided it is so. But you can't depend on that notion continuing forever when you're talking about a crop of collectors who will have their own version of Mantle to collect (Mike Trout).

We're already seeing collecting trends change, probably forever. Whereas the Topps Rookie was an all important card in the past, now it is Bowman that is king. Again, simple example of a widening trend.

Shakes cane...

Get off my Lawn!

[Seven]

Originally Posted by packs

No disrespect but this perspective is as old as it is stale. Literally every generation has said the same thing about the next, mostly because it appreciates things differently and that has always made an old person mad for whatever reason there is to be mad that young people's opinions are different.

My point was about hobby trends. There is no reason whatsoever for the 52 Mantle to be the card it is. Boomers have just decided it is so. But you can't depend on that notion continuing forever when you're talking about a crop of collectors who will have their own version of Mantle to collect (Mike Trout).

We're already seeing collecting trends change, probably forever. Whereas the Topps Rookie was an all important card in the past, now it is Bowman that is king. Again, simple example of a widening trend. Look at the big cards of guys who came into their own as my generation grew up:

Griffey - it's Upper Deck, not Topps
Jeter - it's SP, not Topps
Ichiro - it's SPX, not Topps
Pujols - it's Bowman, not Topps
Trout - it's Bowman, not Topps

I was just basing it off what I've been seeing with teenagers I've been working with. They seem to value a lot more of the "here and now" but I suppose you could be right. I didn't mean for it to sound like a "back in my day" sort of thing. And yes I noticed that with the Bowman Rookies of the modern cards as well.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by packs

Griffey - it's Upper Deck, not Topps
Jeter - it's SP, not Topps
Ichiro - it's SPX, not Topps
Pujols - it's Bowman, not Topps
Trout - it's Bowman, not Topps

Yes on Grif. Yes on Jeter. Debatable on Ichiro. Debatable on Pujols. Debatable on Trout.

If we are talking about autograph variations, or insert variations, fine. But the standard base card for 90% of collectors is still king, in most cases being Topps or Topps update.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[campyfan39]

I have three teenage sons and sadly only one is slightly interested in cards at the moment but all three almost exclusively listen to music from the 60’s-80’s and talk about history and the past with me constantly. Interestingly enough my 17 year old broached the subject of cards with me today because he heard about the sale of the 52 Mantle. He figured I had one. Hahaha. I said son if I had one we would be living a lot differently haha.

Originally Posted by packs

No disrespect but this perspective is as old as it is stale. Literally every generation has said the same thing about the next, mostly because it appreciates things differently and that has always made an old person mad for whatever reason there is to be mad that young people's opinions are different.

My point was about hobby trends. There is no reason whatsoever for the 52 Mantle to be the card it is. Boomers have just decided it is so. But you can't depend on that notion continuing forever when you're talking about a crop of collectors who will have their own version of Mantle to collect (Mike Trout).

We're already seeing collecting trends change, probably forever. Whereas the Topps Rookie was an all important card in the past, now it is Bowman that is king. Again, simple example of a widening trend. Look at the big cards of guys who came into their own as my generation grew up:

Griffey - it's Upper Deck, not Topps
Jeter - it's SP, not Topps
Ichiro - it's SPX, not Topps
Pujols - it's Bowman, not Topps
Trout - it's Bowman, not Topps

[cardsagain74]

While I've always been all for disputing that "the new generation sucks worse than mine" fallacy, the virtual technology of the last 20 years is bound to cause differences though. Today's kids and teenagers won't be worse (or better) people than prior generations, but they aren't growing up with the same level of in-person contact as everyone else prior. That's bound to cause some major sociological changes going forward.

And as far as the complaints about high card values: sure you can see the "I can't buy what I want anymore" side, but still.....turning a sharp increase in your possessions' worth into such a negative is unreal. That takes the grass is always greener cliche to a level I've never seen.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

While I've always been all for disputing that "the new generation sucks worse than mine" fallacy, the virtual technology of the last 20 years is bound to cause differences though. Today's kids and teenagers won't be worse (or better) people than prior generations, but they aren't growing up with the same level of in-person contact as everyone else prior. That's bound to cause some major sociological changes going forward.

Exactly. I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, just that I think it is a thing. The virtually endless supply of media and current popular culture content almost by definition leaves little room or need to turn to pop culture material from the past. As a general rule, that is - Campyfan seems to be doing well in bucking that dynamic with his kids.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

I have three teenage sons and sadly only one is slightly interested in cards at the moment but all three almost exclusively listen to music from the 60’s-80’s and talk about history and the last with me constantly. Interestingly enough my 17 year old broached the subject of cards with me today because he heard about the sale of the 52 Mantle. He figured I had one. Hahaha. I said son if I had one we would be living a lot differently hahha.

I think it's also dependant on how the kids are raised, and what they're taught to value. I'm learning a lot from this thread (and filing it away for future notice)

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think it's also dependant on how the kids are raised, and what they're taught to value.

Well said. Interestingly, my ten year old son and I just minutes ago got off a long call with a seventy-nine year old gentleman who pulled our 1952 Topps Mantle from its pack, way back in the Summer of '52, using money earned from his paper route. He bought the pack at a tobacco shop in Illinois.

My son and I were hanging on every word the original owner said, learning exactly where our Mantle card came from and how things were then, what his life was like, how into baseball he was, etc.

How many times do we collectors look at a card in our hands and wonder to ourselves about its journey through time to us? My son and I discussed how rare and special it is to trace a card's lineage like that. The discussion even ranged to the advent of TPG grading, and how the owner and his own son drove the card up to PSA some years ago for grading (I can also add both its owners find the arbitrary grading rules irksome LOL!).

Tangentially, a work colleague sent me a holiday gift this year; it is a coffee table book about the baseball HOF. My son and I cracked it open, and who was staring at us on the first page picture? The Mick. Of course we then went through all the other greats.

When I was a kid, my parents didn't teach me about Ruth or DiMaggio or Mantle or any of the others, and yet I still came to revere their cards— my cousins got me into collecting, and from there I just found the old greats. So one doesn't even necessarily need a parent to find their way to the classics. And one doesn't need to have seen them play either; that is what makes them legendary figures— that they existed in an often romanticized past world. They take on a more majestic character and mystique that way, actually.

I think music is an interesting analogy— someone can get into any modern artist, and if they are intellectually curious they will eventually delve into that artist's influences, roots, and samples, and journey onward from there.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

I have three teenage sons and sadly only one is slightly interested in cards at the moment but all three almost exclusively listen to music from the 60’s-80’s and talk about history and the past with me constantly. Interestingly enough my 17 year old broached the subject of cards with me today because he heard about the sale of the 52 Mantle. He figured I had one. Hahaha. I said son if I had one we would be living a lot differently haha.

This.

I think alot of people posting in this thread don't actually have teenagers/millenials in the family.

My daughter is 18. As opposed to being disconnected from the past, the internet has made it possible for her to know more words to Fleetwood Mac songs than I do, and at least as good a hold on 80's rock/pop as I do which happened in my late teens.
She's also watched a tonne of old tv shows along the way, Full House etc. and wears high waisted bellbottom jeans by choice.

My son will be 17 in March, similarly knows way more music than you'd ever guess from Grunge to 80's metal and funk, and even threw on a Wham song the other day and jammed to it in the car. I almost cried laughing through my efforts to belt it out alongside him.
He loves animae and says he's learned a tonne about what's important from these Japanese storytells, as well as all kinds of other interesting stuff.

Sure kids today may socialize differently, or seemingly not value what we value, but that's largely because we are seldom let in to their world. They see us as old, just as I saw my Mum and Dad as old.

Neither of my kids like cards, but they like money and like the idea of owning something of worth down the track. I don't care at all as long as they love us and are good hearts.

Think waaaaay to many generalizations get made about todays youth because they communicate so differently and often remotely.

Oh, and I love the rise and rise of sports cards.
I bought some when everyone in the early 2000's was saying it was nuts to do so, that the opportunity of the 80's had gone and everything was overpriced.
Am totally happy for a 67' muscle car to be worth a million dollars, and a 52 Topps Mantle similarly to have desirability and high end worth.
Don't want to spend big money? There are plenty of 52' Topps cards you can buy cheap and even collect most of your team that way.
Not everyone gets to have a 52' Mantle because they've somehow earned the right though their collecting chops, ALL highly desired cards have carried a significant premium which is why even back in the day people wouldn't shell out what would now be considered peanuts for them.
The opportunity is always NOW.
Later is good for regrets.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

This.

I think alot of people posting in this thread don't actually have teenagers/millenials in the family.

My daughter is 18. As opposed to being disconnected from the past, the internet has made it possible for her to know more words to Fleetwood Mac songs than I do, and at least as good a hold on 80's rock/pop as I do which happened in my late teens.
She's also watched a tonne of old tv shows along the way, Full House etc. and wears high waisted bellbottom jeans by choice.

My son will be 17 in March, similarly knows way more music than you'd ever guess from Grunge to 80's metal and funk, and even threw on a Wham song the other day and jammed to it in the car. I almost cried laughing through my efforts to belt it out alongside him.
He loves animae and says he's learned a tonne about what's important from these Japanese storytells, as well as all kinds of other interesting stuff.

Sure kids today may socialize differently, or seemingly not value what we value, but that's largely because we are seldom let in to their world. They see us as old, just as I saw my Mum and Dad as old.

Neither of my kids like cards, but they like money and like the idea of owning something of worth down the track. I don't care at all as long as they love us and are good hearts.

Think waaaaay to many generalizations get made about todays youth because they communicate so differently and often remotely.

Oh, and I love the rise and rise of sports cards.
I bought some when everyone in the early 2000's was saying it was nuts to do so, that the opportunity of the 80's had gone and everything was overpriced.
Am totally happy for a 67' muscle car to be worth a million dollars, and a 52 Topps Mantle similarly to have desirability and high end worth.
Don't want to spend big money? There are plenty of 52' Topps cards you can buy cheap and even collect most of your team that way.
Not everyone gets to have a 52' Mantle because they've somehow earned the right though their collecting chops, ALL highly desired cards have carried a significant premium which is why even back in the day people wouldn't shell out what would now be considered peanuts for them.
The opportunity is always NOW.
Later is good for regrets.

With all due respect, the same can be said the other way around.
Those commenting on how wonderful and great the youth of today is usually comes from only those with kids.
Once you have children, your judgement of course becomes extremely partial and biased, and understandably so.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

This.

I think alot of people posting in this thread don't actually have teenagers/millenials in the family.

My daughter is 18. As opposed to being disconnected from the past, the internet has made it possible for her to know more words to Fleetwood Mac songs than I do, and at least as good a hold on 80's rock/pop as I do which happened in my late teens.
She's also watched a tonne of old tv shows along the way, Full House etc. and wears high waisted bellbottom jeans by choice.

My son will be 17 in March, similarly knows way more music than you'd ever guess from Grunge to 80's metal and funk, and even threw on a Wham song the other day and jammed to it in the car. I almost cried laughing through my efforts to belt it out alongside him.
He loves animae and says he's learned a tonne about what's important from these Japanese storytells, as well as all kinds of other interesting stuff.

Sure kids today may socialize differently, or seemingly not value what we value, but that's largely because we are seldom let in to their world. They see us as old, just as I saw my Mum and Dad as old.

Neither of my kids like cards, but they like money and like the idea of owning something of worth down the track. I don't care at all as long as they love us and are good hearts.

Think waaaaay to many generalizations get made about todays youth because they communicate so differently and often remotely.

Oh, and I love the rise and rise of sports cards.
I bought some when everyone in the early 2000's was saying it was nuts to do so, that the opportunity of the 80's had gone and everything was overpriced.
Am totally happy for a 67' muscle car to be worth a million dollars, and a 52 Topps Mantle similarly to have desirability and high end worth.
Don't want to spend big money? There are plenty of 52' Topps cards you can buy cheap and even collect most of your team that way.
Not everyone gets to have a 52' Mantle because they've somehow earned the right though their collecting chops, ALL highly desired cards have carried a significant premium which is why even back in the day people wouldn't shell out what would now be considered peanuts for them.
The opportunity is always NOW.
Later is good for regrets.

Again I think this is very fair point, I think all of our perspectives are different though, when I was making my comments on how I feel about today's teenagers, it was solely based off the groups of Teenagers I work with. Again I think it's all about how you raise them, and what you teach them. I didn't intend for it to be a blanket, be all end all statement. Sure there are kids that appreciate the older aspects of Americana. I'm on the younger side and my tastes certainly veer that way as well, again I strongly think it's about how you were raised and what exactly you were taught to value, and what you were exposed to as a Child.

EDIT:

I saw this article in the Journal. Slightly Relevant to our recent discussions!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-we-...DUVlmxKwXvj7Ek

[notfast]

Originally Posted by packs

No disrespect but this perspective is as old as it is stale. Literally every generation has said the same thing about the next, mostly because it appreciates things differently and that has always made an old person mad for whatever reason there is to be mad that young people's opinions are different.

Agree 100%

Why don’t people talk about Jordan the same way they do the other greats that collectors “haven’t seen play?”

People who were born after he retired the 2nd time can drive/buy cigarettes etc so it’s not “recent” history to many people. I mean you’d have to be 30+ to have a chance at remembering Jordan during his best years and his market keeps going up and up.

Stale take is the nicest way to put it.