SGC and greed

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

The inner sleeve is to stop the thin silk from slipping around inside the holder.
Especially true for those without backs.

Strange thread for mine, all the TPG's have bumped their grading prices.
It's not hard to understand, these collectables are now bringing significant returns and the TPG's want a slightly bigger piece of the pie.
When a slabbed and graded card brings the premium that it does over raw, this seems a fair and reasoned thought process.

If you don't like, just don't use the service.
If you're just as happy handling these silks with your oiled finger tips, go ahead.
But moaning over a $20 charge over the life of your ownership of this memorabilia is dumb to me.

Now if you were bitching about wait times - THERE'S A POST I"D THUMBS UP.

Pic added coz these silks get so damned little love.


Oh, and I know we get older and constantly want to pay the prices of our youth for things......but that aint a thing.

Paying the amount we did in our youth is the last thing consumers lament and care about... the last. It's getting VALUE for the extra money charged, which rarely if ever happens today. Surely, that isn't "dumb" to you??

The motto of most businesses today is I'll give you LESS, but demand MORE.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Paying the amount we did in our youth is the last thing consumers lament and care about... the last. It's getting VALUE for the extra money charged, which rarely if ever happens today. Surely, that isn't "dumb" to you??

The motto of most businesses today is I'll give you LESS, but demand MORE.

I don't want to be rude, but if you don't understand the VALUE you receive from having cards graded, memorabilia authenticated, etc., then getting your pants knotted in this thread is the last thing you should be worried about.

There is enormous value in nearly everything you can acquire these days, should it fit your needs.
From the food you eat, the tv you watch, the car you drive, the music you listen to...all are produced at costs just pennies on the dollar to what would have been necessary in the past, due to automation and delivery services and methods.
If you had to put your own hours into learning, perfecting, and producing any of the above it would likely cost you a hundred times as much in whatever your hourly work value would be worth in your own profession.

If you view such things as grading cards in a poor light to begin with, for whatever reasons they are, your prejudice informs you to think of a plastic slab and an 'experts' opinion as not valued at todays costs.

If however, you value the grading service because it allows widespread confident trade in trinkets you have a fondness for, and that such grading will regularly add 50% to it's value and in cases double or triple its value, it's really not all that difficult to understand where many see value.

Again, pay to play or don't play.
Complaining about the cost when you don't HAVE TO go graded to enjoy this hobby is DUMB.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

I don't want to be rude, but if you don't understand the VALUE you receive from having cards graded, memorabilia authenticated, etc., then getting your pants knotted in this thread is the last thing you should be worried about.

There is enormous value in nearly everything you can acquire these days, should it fit your needs.
From the food you eat, the tv you watch, the car you drive, the music you listen to...all are produced at costs just pennies on the dollar to what would have been necessary in the past, due to automation and delivery services and methods.
If you had to put your own hours into learning, perfecting, and producing any of the above it would likely cost you a hundred times as much in whatever your hourly work value would be worth in your own profession.

If you view such things as grading cards in a poor light to begin with, for whatever reasons they are, your prejudice informs you to think of a plastic slab and an 'experts' opinion as not valued at todays costs.

If however, you value the grading service because it allows widespread confident trade in trinkets you have a fondness for, and that such grading will regularly add 50% to it's value and in cases double or triple its value, it's really not all that difficult to understand where many see value.

Again, pay to play or don't play.
Complaining about the cost when you don't HAVE TO go graded to enjoy this hobby is DUMB.

I think the problem wasn't the grading in general, but that there was an unannounced upcharge to place the silks in a plastic sleeve as part of the process. And that that upcharge seemed unreasonably large.

Just going with it as a labor item, how long does it take to get a silk into a sleeve? Maybe a minute? Lets be generous and call it two minutes. Someone could easily do 30 cards an hour. At $20 per, that's basically charging 600/hour to place a card in a sleeve.

If that sounds totally reasonable to you, I'm happy for you. You must be doing very well.
I also have a fantastic bargain for you! I'll send you a vintage card from my collection for free! I just want $20 to put it in a sleeve AND toploader plus the postage. (Don't go getting all excited, it's a 48 Leaf common that would grade a 1.5 on a good day.)

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by steve B

I think the problem wasn't the grading in general, but that there was an unannounced upcharge to place the silks in a plastic sleeve as part of the process. And that that upcharge seemed unreasonably large.

Just going with it as a labor item, how long does it take to get a silk into a sleeve? Maybe a minute? Lets be generous and call it two minutes. Someone could easily do 30 cards an hour. At $20 per, that's basically charging 600/hour to place a card in a sleeve.

If that sounds totally reasonable to you, I'm happy for you. You must be doing very well.
I also have a fantastic bargain for you! I'll send you a vintage card from my collection for free! I just want $20 to put it in a sleeve AND toploader plus the postage. (Don't go getting all excited, it's a 48 Leaf common that would grade a 1.5 on a good day.)

Nope, the charge sounds very much out of line with the amount of work it requires. If someone else will do the job - at a TPG I respect and will use - for far less, then I'll go there. And the way I'd go about it here on this forum is to praise the one I like and that is better.
If all the TPG's charge a similar price I have one option.

Pay the price and get it mylar'd, or don't.
At the TPG I care for the most.
Complaining about the price is a waste of time.

I've got a 2012 Audi A7.
When I take it to the Audi dealership for an oil change, it's one price.
When I take it to an independent Euro garage who have great technicians who all own Euro cars and love to work on them, it costs me 40% less.
And the job is done more to my liking at the indy shop, where they do a proper drain of old oil/install new drain plug etc, whereas Audi just do a top vacuum removal because it's less work, requires them to not have to fiddle with a new drain plug or be responsible for leaks. And it's way worse for the engine because far less of the sediment/contaminants are removed.

Do I go to my Audi forum (which I'm a member of) and bitch about the price Audi charges which everyone who owns Audi already knows about, or do I make a thread recommending my local auto shop here in Kansas City for any interested in a better product for less money?
If I didn't have a local shop, and could only use Audi.....what good would it do me to complain about the price of the oil change???
I chose to have one of my cars be a German brand that has higher maintenance costs. My return on that choice is the quality of machinery I feel I get to drive, and the way it looks.

I get it, Ken didn't know he was going to get upcharged at all, and then was offended by the size of the upcharge.
It's really worth this thread???

To me it's just another rant thread about someone not liking the way third party grading companies do their business.
Whereas I like the end product and accept I have to pay to play or simply not play.

That IS an option, right?
Rather than just ragging on SGC and creating a thread that has their name and GREED as it's header, and the long explanation of how awful their customer service is because they wouldn't succumb to Ken's wishes, maybe just a simple "Geez it's getting expensive to use these TPG's today, how does everybody else feel"? might have flown more reasonably.

But on this forum it's just become completely de rigueur to simply whale on those TPG's for anything and everything.

So, carry on I guess.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

I don't want to be rude, but if you don't understand the VALUE you receive from having cards graded, memorabilia authenticated, etc., then getting your pants knotted in this thread is the last thing you should be worried about.

There is enormous value in nearly everything you can acquire these days, should it fit your needs.
From the food you eat, the tv you watch, the car you drive, the music you listen to...all are produced at costs just pennies on the dollar to what would have been necessary in the past, due to automation and delivery services and methods.
If you had to put your own hours into learning, perfecting, and producing any of the above it would likely cost you a hundred times as much in whatever your hourly work value would be worth in your own profession.

If you view such things as grading cards in a poor light to begin with, for whatever reasons they are, your prejudice informs you to think of a plastic slab and an 'experts' opinion as not valued at todays costs.

If however, you value the grading service because it allows widespread confident trade in trinkets you have a fondness for, and that such grading will regularly add 50% to it's value and in cases double or triple its value, it's really not all that difficult to understand where many see value.

Again, pay to play or don't play.
Complaining about the cost when you don't HAVE TO go graded to enjoy this hobby is DUMB.

This is beyond flawed logic to me. If something has perceived value to you, then ANY cost associated with it is doesn't matter, regardless of the amount?? With all due respect, I think that's the definition of dumb. Let me guess, any company that TELLS you their product has "value" regardless of the price.... and you're sold! .....right?

"You say it has value? I'll take this many!!!"

... would you still be seeing the same "value" if grading prices tripled tomorrow?

You're a marketing person's wet dream.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

This is beyond flawed logic to me. If something has perceived value to you, then ANY cost associated with it is doesn't matter, regardless of the amount?? With all due respect, I think that's the definition of dumb. Let me guess, any company that TELLS you their product has "value" regardless of the price.... and you're sold! .....right?

"You say it has value? I'll take this many!!!"

... would you still be seeing the same "value" if grading prices tripled tomorrow?

You're a marketing person's wet dream.

You're an idiot.
Stop and read and think.
You're babbling in an attempt to win an argument you clearly don't understand.

Value by definition means perceived worth of something.
If I perceive the item has worth at the cost being charged, it has VALUE to me.
Regardless of what a company or you or anyone else thinks, it may have value to ME.
I can then choose to exercise whether to use my discretionary funds to attain it.
I don't HAVE to, I can CHOOSE to.
Were the cost of something to go up 300%, if it still has value to me eg. I want to own that item more than have the money in the bank, or I believe it to be worth more than the rise in cost and therefore a sound financial decision, I can choose whether or not to purchase said item or service.

We're on a forum that discusses the ownership of little bits of paper and other memorabilia, most of which has zero value to most people on the planet. The vast majority would roll their eyes at the amount collectors pay for items largely 'worth' in their estimation its value in joules on a cold winters night. And YOU think a TPG who wants to charge $20 for mylar an outlier to logical value LOL.
Move along son if you have so little grasp of the discussion point.