PWCC Huigens Now Has a Criminal Defense Attorney

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

The truth can't be libelous...

I don't think so. If I am not mistaking the truth is the best defense.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't think so. If I am not mistaking the truth is the best defense.

Exactly. Of course being right and being willing to deal with it in court and all the associated expenses is another story. That's precisely why lawyers send scare letters. Apparently in this case, as in many, it worked.

[JunkyJoe]

... if a certain swindler is high on drugs most of the time? I can't help but make certain behavioral connections to the biography of that sleazy Belfort dude in The Wolf Of Wallstreet.

[japhi]

Best part about that letter is the “investor” that deems the card is now worth half based on the thread at BO. The implication is that the discussion itself is what hurts the cards value as opposed to the alleged alteration.

Which of course is ridiculous, the investor obviously believes that the alteration occurred and that the card has an AUTH value, hence the 350k.

And FWIW, I don’t blame PWCC for playing this game where they send the cards back to the TPG. Card was graded in 2006. Lots of shenanigans with PWCC but this is clearly on the TPG.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Exactly. Of course being right and being willing to deal with it in court and all the associated expenses is another story. That's precisely why lawyers send scare letters. Apparently in this case, as in many, it worked.

One of the bigger scum bags in the hobby is always threatening with his lawyer when called out for his super shady dealings. Seems to work pretty good for him.

[jad22]

This is pretty mind boggling. Its a serialized card, where it is described as having issues present in 2006, that are no longer there.

[topcat61]

Has the FBI officially closed this case?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by topcat61

Has the FBI officially closed this case?

I don't think so.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by topcat61

Has the FBI officially closed this case?

Not sure, their lawyer did an excellent job of making the whole thing disappear. Like posters on his forum.

[perezfan]

If the FBI thinks that issuing a few random refunds exonerates PWCC and PSA from the fraud they committed, that's really sad.

Hopefully they realize that 99% of the altered cards sold have not been refunded, and that the vast majority are still circulating among countless dealers/auction houses/collectors.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by bnorth

One of the bigger scum bags in the hobby is always threatening with his lawyer when called out for his super shady dealings.

You'll have to be more specific; that could apply to dozens of hobby parasites.

As for Blowout, the owner folded in the face of an obvious bluff. They should have told whoever sent the demand letter to go f^< k themselves. A case against Blowout for something a poster wrote has no merit because Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act gives interactive online services of all types broad immunity from defamation claims stemming from content created by others:

"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider."

The threat is so lacking in legal justification that after the lawsuit is thrown out of Federal court, BO could sue the attorney stupid enough to file the case for malicious prosecution. In state courts in Cali and some other states with anti-SLAPP laws (laws that punish the use of frivolous lawsuits to stifle debates about issues relevant to a segment of the public), the case would be disposed of in the initial pleading stages as well, with sanctions against the plaintiff for bringing it in the first place.

All BO has now done is to geld the board: anyone who is angry at anything posted just needs to send a lawyer letter and it will be censored.

[Leon]

I have gotten many Cease And Desist letters. Almost all of them I just laugh at. Since lawyers started understanding what Section 230 does (defines who a publisher of information is) they mostly quit. And of course a forum owner is not liable for what a member says, so I never have had a concern. I can even edit someone's post, and as long as I don't change the meaning, I am still not liable. I have told a few lawyers to go read 230, F off and get back to me. None ever did.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

You'll have to be more specific; that could apply to dozens of hobby parasites.

As for Blowout, the owner folded in the face of an obvious bluff. They should have told whoever sent the demand letter to go f^< k themselves. A case against Blowout for something a poster wrote has no merit because Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act gives interactive online services of all types broad immunity from defamation claims stemming from content created by others:

"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider."

The threat is so lacking in legal justification that after the lawsuit is thrown out of Federal court, BO could sue the attorney stupid enough to file the case for malicious prosecution. In state courts in Cali and some other states with anti-SLAPP laws (laws that punish the use of frivolous lawsuits to stifle debates about issues relevant to a segment of the public), the case would be disposed of in the initial pleading stages as well, with sanctions against the plaintiff for bringing it in the first place.

All BO has now done is to geld the board: anyone who is angry at anything posted just needs to send a lawyer letter and it will be censored.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have gotten many Cease And Desist letters. Almost all of them I just laugh at. Since lawyers started understanding what Section 230 does (defines who a publisher of information is) they mostly quit. And of course a forum owner is not liable for what a member says, so I never have had a concern. I can even edit someone's post, and as long as I don't change the meaning, I am still not liable. I have told a few lawyers to go read 230, F off and get back to me. None ever did.

Plus, no tort has been committed. Its a shame Blowout got intimidated and shut the thread down. Like Adam, I would have told the guy to shove is altered card up his backside.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Plus, no tort has been committed. Its a shame Blowout got intimidated and shut the thread down. Like Adam, I would have told the guy to shove is altered card up his backside.

I think they did the right thing. The thread wasn't poofed (that would be bad) instead they just locked it and provided scans warning other members that perhaps they (NOT BO) could get hit with a letter, too.

Actually a nice little jab BO did to PWCC, BGS, and the card owner.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't think so. If I am not mistaking the truth is the best defense.

The entire thing is totally absurd Truth is stranger than fiction.

https://youtu.be/sxAk3B_zS5k?t=84

[bounce]

You guys all obviously forgot

PICTURES AREN'T EVIDENCE!

also, it's apparently "...stemming from the publc message board statement...". PUBLC - got it.

[bounce]

and one more thing - can you not just put that card next to another one from the set, ok another one of the lebrons for that matter, and figure out that it's short?

anyway...back to the beginning of the 20th century for me.

[Rhotchkiss]

It is my understanding that the pwcc letter was not sent to blowout, but rather was provided to (one or more) investors in an effort to validate value and to disclose the situation.

[Bigdaddy]

Reminds me of the six phases of a big project:

1. Enthusiasm, "Hey, PSA is here to save the day" "Never get cheated"
2. Disillusionment, "Wait, those cards look strange, altered almost"
3. Panic, hysteria and overtime, "Oh crap, I've got high grade PSAs in my collection"
4. Hunt for the guilty, BODA hard at work, unearthing evidence
5. Punishment of the innocent, "PWCC: Here's a letter from my lawyer, stop looking for dirt"
6. Reward for the uninvolved. We'll see.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

It is my understanding that the pwcc letter was not sent to blowout, but rather was provided to (one or more) investors in an effort to validate value and to disclose the situation.

Almost sounds like they're trying to assess damages to Blowout or the posters.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

Almost sounds like they're trying to assess damages to Blowout or the posters.

Ah, the old “the truth is not the problem, but rather the person pointing out said truth” defense. Wonder where I’ve seen that before.