PWCC Huigens Now Has a Criminal Defense Attorney

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by steve B

How would that apply to grading cards?

Here's why I would trust a Forensic Document Examiner over a grader any day of the week -

"Forensic document examiners, also often referred to as questioned document examiners, are forensic scientists who are responsible for using a number of scientific processes and methods for examining documents—whether written, typed, or printed—related to a crime scene investigation.

Forensic document examiners should not to be confused with graphologists, who are handwriting analysis practitioners that claim to be able to discern personality characteristics based on handwriting features. Graphology is largely viewed as a pseudoscience in the eyes of the scientific community.

Forensic document examiners, on the other hand, are skilled forensics scientists with a demonstrated expertise in applied questioned document examination. They are handwriting experts, as well as experts in other areas of document examination, including machine printing processes; and obliterated, indented and erased entries.

The most common type of questioned document examination involves identifying the authorship of a written letter. It is also common for forensic document examiners to determine if an item originated from the same source as a known item, determine when a document was produced, and decipher information on a document that has been erased, hidden, or obscured.

Forensic document examiners may perform the following:

Examine documents for signs that they have been forged or altered
Compare signatures and handwriting through handwriting analysis to determine the authorship of documents
Examine typed documents and link them to specific machines or computers (printing process examinations)
Decipher the contents of documents that have been partially destroyed or altered
Compare fractured or cut-edge comparisons on a variety of surfaces, including paper and tape
Examine incidents of indented writing
Perform alternate light source examinations to determine ink discrimination, alterations, and/or enhancements
Forensic document examiners commonly work in local, state or federal crime labs. A number of these professionals work through private investigative companies, although this type of work is generally geared toward civil cases. Forensic document examiners are also often called to testify as experts in criminal cases".*

*crimesceneinvestigatoredu.org

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by topcat61

Here's why I would trust a Forensic Document Examiner over a grader any day of the week -

"Forensic document examiners, also often referred to as questioned document examiners, are forensic scientists who are responsible for using a number of scientific processes and methods for examining documents—whether written, typed, or printed—related to a crime scene investigation.

Forensic document examiners should not to be confused with graphologists, who are handwriting analysis practitioners that claim to be able to discern personality characteristics based on handwriting features. Graphology is largely viewed as a pseudoscience in the eyes of the scientific community.

Forensic document examiners, on the other hand, are skilled forensics scientists with a demonstrated expertise in applied questioned document examination. They are handwriting experts, as well as experts in other areas of document examination, including machine printing processes; and obliterated, indented and erased entries.

The most common type of questioned document examination involves identifying the authorship of a written letter. It is also common for forensic document examiners to determine if an item originated from the same source as a known item, determine when a document was produced, and decipher information on a document that has been erased, hidden, or obscured.

Forensic document examiners may perform the following:

Examine documents for signs that they have been forged or altered
Compare signatures and handwriting through handwriting analysis to determine the authorship of documents
Examine typed documents and link them to specific machines or computers (printing process examinations)
Decipher the contents of documents that have been partially destroyed or altered
Compare fractured or cut-edge comparisons on a variety of surfaces, including paper and tape
Examine incidents of indented writing
Perform alternate light source examinations to determine ink discrimination, alterations, and/or enhancements
Forensic document examiners commonly work in local, state or federal crime labs. A number of these professionals work through private investigative companies, although this type of work is generally geared toward civil cases. Forensic document examiners are also often called to testify as experts in criminal cases".*

*crimesceneinvestigatoredu.org

I absolutely agree. I couldn't care less about what number is assigned to a card. I leave the aesthetic opinions up to my own eyes. I don't need a third party for that. I want a grading company to confirm that a card is authentic and unaltered. I guess we're all waiting for a reliable company to provide that service.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

I absolutely agree. I couldn't care less about what number is assigned to a card. I leave the aesthetic opinions up to my own eyes. I don't need a third party for that. I want a grading company to confirm that a card is authentic and unaltered. I guess we're all waiting for a reliable company to provide that service.

That was PSA's initial advertising pitch as I recall -- an antidote to card doctors. Thus the "A" in PSA. The irony is rich.

[frankbmd]

PWCC has their vaunted vault (please use "vaunted vault" going forward when referring to the "vault") at the National consisting of high grade cards in modest display cases on several easels that are not secured to the floor. They do have a uniformed guard however. Once the show closes each evening the vault is moved to an undisclosed location with the uniformed guard. At the conclusion of the show the vaunted vault will be transported back to Oregon in a used Brinks Truck recently purchased by PWCC. The truck is festooned with a variety of stickers to misdirect highway bandits regarding the truck's contents.

The National display is so innovative in concept that it will be set up the same way at their Oregon edifice. After all, what's good for the hobby is good for the lobby.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

PWCC has their vaunted vault (please use "vaunted vault" going forward when referring to the "vault") at the National consisting of high grade cards in modest display cases on several easels that are not secured to the floor. They do have a uniformed guard however. Once the show closes each evening the vault is moved to an undisclosed location with the uniformed guard. At the conclusion of the show the vaunted vault will be transported back to Oregon in a used Brinks Truck recently purchased by PWCC. The truck is festooned with a variety of stickers to misdirect highway bandits regarding the truck's contents.

The National display is so innovative in concept that it will be set up the same way at their Oregon edifice. After all, what's good for the hobby is good for the lobby.

Whats good for the Hobby is good for the Lobby.......Dang thats awesome!!!

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by whitehse

Whats good for the Hobby is good for the Lobby.......Dang thats awesome!!!

Of course when they open in London they will use a bobby in the lobby to guard their Cobby.

[swarmee]

PWCC and owners of altered cards now going on the offensive against message boards.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4160

Will be interesting to see if this kind of thing actually makes it into court. Would be interesting to see Beckett graders called in as "expert" witnesses and then get shown a mountain of trimmed cards in their slabs proving them wrong.

[benjulmag]

Probably the last place I would go to have something re-examined is the place that is accused of getting it wrong the first time and which stands to take a big financial hit if it can be shown they erred. This comment is not intended to single out Beckett, but is simply to make the point that in order for a re-examination to have significant meaning, it needs to be conducted by a company that has no economic stake in the outcome.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by swarmee

PWCC and owners of altered cards now going on the offensive against message boards.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4160

Will be interesting to see if this kind of thing actually makes it into court. Would be interesting to see Beckett graders called in as "expert" witnesses and then get shown a mountain of trimmed cards in their slabs proving them wrong.

John, can you post a link to the Blowout thread that analyzes the card and determines its been altered? Thanks

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

PWCC and owners of altered cards now going on the offensive against message boards.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4160

Will be interesting to see if this kind of thing actually makes it into court. Would be interesting to see Beckett graders called in as "expert" witnesses and then get shown a mountain of trimmed cards in their slabs proving them wrong.

Thanks for the update. Really what else would you expect from a bunch of scamming pieces of trash.

[byrone]

Originally Posted by swarmee

PWCC and owners of altered cards now going on the offensive against message boards.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4160

Now that's funny stuff...sitcom material, really

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

The National display is so innovative in concept that it will be set up the same way at their Oregon edifice. After all, what's good for the hobby is good for the lobby.

They better not call that the 'hobby lobby' as the name is already taken..

[steve B]

Originally Posted by topcat61

Here's why I would trust a Forensic Document Examiner over a grader any day of the week -

"Forensic document examiners, also often referred to as questioned document examiners, are forensic scientists who are responsible for using a number of scientific processes and methods for examining documents—whether written, typed, or printed—related to a crime scene investigation.

Forensic document examiners should not to be confused with graphologists, who are handwriting analysis practitioners that claim to be able to discern personality characteristics based on handwriting features. Graphology is largely viewed as a pseudoscience in the eyes of the scientific community.

Forensic document examiners, on the other hand, are skilled forensics scientists with a demonstrated expertise in applied questioned document examination. They are handwriting experts, as well as experts in other areas of document examination, including machine printing processes; and obliterated, indented and erased entries.

The most common type of questioned document examination involves identifying the authorship of a written letter. It is also common for forensic document examiners to determine if an item originated from the same source as a known item, determine when a document was produced, and decipher information on a document that has been erased, hidden, or obscured.

Forensic document examiners may perform the following:

Examine documents for signs that they have been forged or altered
Compare signatures and handwriting through handwriting analysis to determine the authorship of documents
Examine typed documents and link them to specific machines or computers (printing process examinations)
Decipher the contents of documents that have been partially destroyed or altered
Compare fractured or cut-edge comparisons on a variety of surfaces, including paper and tape
Examine incidents of indented writing
Perform alternate light source examinations to determine ink discrimination, alterations, and/or enhancements
Forensic document examiners commonly work in local, state or federal crime labs. A number of these professionals work through private investigative companies, although this type of work is generally geared toward civil cases. Forensic document examiners are also often called to testify as experts in criminal cases".*

*crimesceneinvestigatoredu.org

Nearly all of that is about judging the content or authorship of a written or typed document. If the card is signed, sure.
Maybe it's just a side effect of the number of crooked autograph authenticators that claim to be "forensic document examiners" (See the autograph section for more info)

In a general sense, they could probably identify some bad alterations, but getting it right on an alteration that's done well? That takes specific specialized information, which I don't believe most of them have.
It wouldn't be hard for them to get it, but the specialized info isn't something they just know.