Ebay seller returned cracked out slab

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'm surprised nobody has really explained the timeline.

Seller to buyer to PSA to buyer ….three trips through the post office, plus time at PSA even giving the benefit of the doubt that the buyer could turn the card around and remail the same day.

And all that happened in one week?
Even with express mail, three days are used up in transit.
Yes, PSA has faster times for higher value items, but does anyone have recent experience with the time it takes to even get logged in?


I just don't see that as probable.

Maybe I am confused. Ebay says it sold Oct 14th and OP's first post was Nov 7th. That is 3 weeks of time and I am sure all of that could easily happen in 3 weeks.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Maybe I am confused. Ebay says it sold Oct 14th and OP's first post was Nov 7th. That is 3 weeks of time and I am sure all of that could easily happen in 3 weeks.

In post 20 he says time from sale to return was about a week.

So that's also a bit confusing, maybe 2 weeks spent trying to deal with ebay etc?

Or just old like me... Sometimes I'm thinking "I just did that last week" And it was much longer than that

[bnorth]

[QUOTE=steve B;1930194]In post 20 he says time from sale to return was about a week.

So that's also a bit confusing, maybe 2 weeks spent trying to deal with ebay etc?

Or just old like me... Sometimes I'm thinking "I just did that last week" And it was much longer than that[/QUOTE]

I am terrible at that one and it keeps getting worse as I age.

[steve B]

I also make the mistake of replying as I read stuff in order.... which ends up being a bit odd sometimes if I miss a day.

[bigfanNY]

Wow this thread is getting long. And many of the OT hypotheticals bring out many of the issues that we all face as card collectors. But again looking at the facts the OP lists one of the key facts that has been lightly discussed is buyer told the seller that the card was no longer in the Holder and the seller said YES when the buyer asked to return the card. Once he said yes is it ok for him to change his mind? How much help would any of us expect from ebay once we said OK to the return?
I understand that many say any buyer returning any card in any slab that he has removed sets a very dangerous president. But the facts of this situation don't really represent that situation. This was a case where both GAI AND THE SELLER represented the card as near mint. The card was determined to be altered so it was misrepresented. The seller said ok to the return...and now he is unhappy with the result. Those are the facts.
This is not a case where Ebay forced the seller to do anything. They just told him to be careful that he might not get his original card back. But again seller states that he did get his original card back.. So everybody who says rhat the seller got screwed by ebay is just wrong. Seller had a choice to fight this return but chose to accept the return.
So folks tell the seller to call the authorities etc... And say what? I sold a card that I said was near mint that turned out to be Altered then the buyer asked to return the card and get a refund and I told him OK. He returned the card in exactly the condition he said he would return it in and I refunded his money.... I am not a lawyer but where exactly did the seller do anything wrong?
Maybe if the seller had told him he would not give full refund because card was out of the case the buyer would have said ok. We will NEVER KNOW. Because the seller said sure send it back.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Wow this thread is getting long. And many of the OT hypotheticals bring out many of the issues that we all face as card collectors. But again looking at the facts the OP lists one of the key facts that has been lightly discussed is buyer told the seller that the card was no longer in the Holder and the seller said YES when the buyer asked to return the card. Once he said yes is it ok for him to change his mind? How much help would any of us expect from ebay once we said OK to the return?
I understand that many say any buyer returning any card in any slab that he has removed sets a very dangerous president. But the facts of this situation don't really represent that situation. This was a case where both GAI AND THE SELLER represented the card as near mint. The card was determined to be altered so it was misrepresented. The seller said ok to the return...and now he is unhappy with the result. Those are the facts.
This is not a case where Ebay forced the seller to do anything. They just told him to be careful that he might not get his original card back. But again seller states that he did get his original card back.. So everybody who says rhat the seller got screwed by ebay is just wrong. Seller had a choice to fight this return but chose to accept the return.
So folks tell the seller to call the authorities etc... And say what? I sold a card that I said was near mint that turned out to be Altered then the buyer asked to return the card and get a refund and I told him OK. He returned the card in exactly the condition he said he would return it in and I refunded his money.... I am not a lawyer but where exactly did the seller do anything wrong?
Maybe if the seller had told him he would not give full refund because card was out of the case the buyer would have said ok. We will NEVER KNOW. Because the seller said sure send it back.

I dunno? You say PSA "determined" the card to be altered?

I thought these days all that PSA offered was their "opinion?" No guarantees?

So isn't that what GAI/the seller offered? Their "opinion?"

PSA hasn't exactly proven they are capable of detecting alterations as of lately?

They're just "opinions" after all?

Aren't we all entitled to our "opinion?"

[Peter_Spaeth]

The OP said he "accidentally" accepted the return and that he did NOT know at the time the card was no longer in the GAI slab, he only learned that later and that ebay then forced him to accept the return he already had agreed to.

Here are his exact words.
"I accidentally hit accepting return but didn't know at the time the card was cracked out.

The buyer said before it was sent to me on ebay it was no longer in the slab and Ebay said I still had to accept the return."



So how was it an accident?

[pokerplyr80]

Looks like I missed something before writing a comment. Never mind.

[Peter_Spaeth]

At this point, here is how I see all this.

1. The buyer probably forfeited his right to a return when he cracked out the card. I can see the counterarguments, but I would rule against the buyer on this point-- somewhat reluctantly.

2. Ebay should not force the seller to accept the return.

3. The seller's posts have not been a model of clarity, and to me it's not a good look when he doesn't answer pertinent and repeated questions.

4. The seller should identify the buyer.

5. I suspect the seller would have resold the GAI card without disclosure of the PSA review, and if true that bothers me.

6. The whole thing is really a no-win situation for the hobby.

[pokerplyr80]

I really don't feel like reading this whole thread to find the answer. But did the OP actually say the buyer told him the card was cracked out while requesting a return? If so my opinion of both parties is completely different.

The buyer did nothing wrong, and the seller made a stupid mistake accepting the return. It happens. I have no idea why this thread was created.

[Mark17]

.

[toolifedave]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Wow this thread is getting long. And many of the OT hypotheticals bring out many of the issues that we all face as card collectors. But again looking at the facts the OP lists one of the key facts that has been lightly discussed is buyer told the seller that the card was no longer in the Holder and the seller said YES when the buyer asked to return the card. Once he said yes is it ok for him to change his mind? How much help would any of us expect from ebay once we said OK to the return?
I understand that many say any buyer returning any card in any slab that he has removed sets a very dangerous president. But the facts of this situation don't really represent that situation. This was a case where both GAI AND THE SELLER represented the card as near mint. The card was determined to be altered so it was misrepresented. The seller said ok to the return...and now he is unhappy with the result. Those are the facts.
This is not a case where Ebay forced the seller to do anything. They just told him to be careful that he might not get his original card back. But again seller states that he did get his original card back.. So everybody who says rhat the seller got screwed by ebay is just wrong. Seller had a choice to fight this return but chose to accept the return.
So folks tell the seller to call the authorities etc... And say what? I sold a card that I said was near mint that turned out to be Altered then the buyer asked to return the card and get a refund and I told him OK. He returned the card in exactly the condition he said he would return it in and I refunded his money.... I am not a lawyer but where exactly did the seller do anything wrong?
Maybe if the seller had told him he would not give full refund because card was out of the case the buyer would have said ok. We will NEVER KNOW. Because the seller said sure send it back.

Return was accepted BEFORE buying advised out of the slab which is noted earlier.
Since return is out if the slab not sure if the same card was returned.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by toolifedave

Return was accepted BEFORE buying advised out of the slab which is noted earlier.
Since return is out if the slab not sure if the same card was returned.

Well that's a new and huge wrinkle since you hadn't raised it before.

If you aren't sure, you should post your best before and after scans/photos and maybe people here can weigh in.

And you should post the name of the buyer so we can offer any insight as to reputation.