Ebay seller returned cracked out slab

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Plus, everyone knows GAI isn't a very (if at all) viable grading company.

So why is it supposedly such a huge loss to the seller, that his card is no longer in that GAI holder?

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Mark17

So why is it supposedly such a huge loss to the seller, that his card is no longer in that GAI holder?

Because it was sold IN the holder. Now it's OUT of said holder. People can disagree about GAI all they want, but it's beside the point. The card status has changed between the sale and the return.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

So why is it supposedly such a huge loss to the seller, that his card is no longer in that GAI holder?

This is what I don't understand. If the holder is essentially worthless, because nobody values a GAI grade, why is no longer having the card in the worthless holder a great loss? It makes no logical sense.

[Marchillo]

Card is in an old PSA 7 slab but seller knows it’s over graded. Buyer cracks and submits to SGC and it comes back a 5. Is that worthy of a return? I still think if you crack it out you own it unless it comes to light that the seller altered the card or purposely enhanced the card.

In the PWCC example didn’t they accept consignments from known fraudsters and card doctors? To me this is apples and oranges.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This is what I don't understand. If the holder is essentially worthless, because nobody values a GAI grade, why is no longer having the card in the worthless holder a great loss? It makes no logical sense.

The only value that GAI holder had was the misinformation on it, which could've been used to foist a doctored card onto the next unsuspecting buyer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

The only value that GAI holder had was the misinformation on it, which could've been used to foist a doctored card onto the next unsuspecting buyer.

In other words, the only value it could have had in round 2 was to deceive. So the seller has now been deprived of any ability to overrepresent the card (not that he did the first time, I will assume he was innocent). I'm not sure I feel badly about that.

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by Mark17

The only value that GAI holder had was the misinformation on it, which could've been used to foist a doctored card onto the next unsuspecting buyer.

A guy with over 11k feedback is unsuspecting?????


Wow just wow.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

A guy with over 11k feedback is unsuspecting?????


Wow just wow.

You think a buyer who suspects the card is doctored is going to spend $5k on it?

Wow, just wow.

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by Mark17

You think a buyer who suspects the card is doctored is going to spend $5k on it?

Wow, just wow.

He took a gamble on the card so he could triple his money. It didn’t work out in his favor. So did he suspect it? Maybe not. Did he think it was a gamble worth taking??? I vote yes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

He took a gamble on the card so he could triple his money. It didn’t work out in his favor. So did he suspect it? Maybe not. Did he think it was a gamble worth taking??? I vote yes.

Now let's examine it from the seller's POV. If the seller thought he had an unaltered NM card, why didn't he try to get it into an SGC or PSA holder? I would ask Dave directly, but I've already done so multiple times.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by Mark17

The only value that GAI holder had was the misinformation on it, which could've been used to foist a doctored card onto the next unsuspecting buyer.

Actually, that holder had one other value. It positively identifies that as the same card originally sold. That's one possibility no one seems to mention. If it was my card, that would be my concern. If the buyer returns a trimmed 1933 Lou Gehrig, how can I be sure it's actually the card that was in the GAI slab? The buyer supposedly bought the card and got it regraded by PSA in one week. Many wondered how he was able to get such fast service. What if he didn't return the card he was sold, but a card he had submitted that was rejected by PSA? He didn't even return the GAI slab it was in. Why not?

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Actually, that holder had one other value. It positively identifies that as the same card originally sold. That's one possibility no one seems to mention. If it was my card, that would be my concern. If the buyer returns a trimmed 1933 Lou Gehrig, how can I be sure it's actually the card that was in the GAI slab? The buyer supposedly bought the card and got it regraded by PSA in one week. Many wondered how he was able to get such fast service. What if he didn't return the card he was sold, but a card he had submitted that was rejected by PSA? He didn't even return the GAI slab it was in. Why not?

In the world of hypotheticals, maybe the buyer cracked it out, got a 7, took an altered one and returned it. Double dipped, in effect.

Seller is still screwed.

[nsaddict]

Originally Posted by nsaddict View Post
If the card would have crossed as a PSA 7, would the buyer have sent the seller 5K in appreciation? Certainly not, I’m in the camp you crack it out it’s yours! Nothing to lose only gain. Total 100% BS!

Same result if you open a wax pack? < Peter’s response ( not sure how to quote in blue box fashion)
__________________


So Peter, if I buy a 1961 Topps unopened pack and open it, I can send it back if I don’t pull a Mantle?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by nsaddict

So Peter, if I buy a 1961 Topps unopened pack and open it, I can send it back if I don’t pull a Mantle?

No, because I'm assuming in your hypo you got what you paid for. But if you pay for an unaltered card and receive an altered card then, yes, you should be able to send it back.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by nsaddict

So Peter, if I buy a 1961 Topps unopened pack and open it, I can send it back if I don’t pull a Mantle?

It looks like, given the new precedent, yes. You could buy a GAI slabbed pack, crack it out, search it, pull anything you want and replace it with whatever you want, reseal it, send it to PSA knowing its going to fail, then send it back to the seller, saying it failed, and get a refund. Pretty sure that's the pack equivalent of what happened here, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Actually, that holder had one other value. It positively identifies that as the same card originally sold. That's one possibility no one seems to mention. If it was my card, that would be my concern. If the buyer returns a trimmed 1933 Lou Gehrig, how can I be sure it's actually the card that was in the GAI slab? The buyer supposedly bought the card and got it regraded by PSA in one week. Many wondered how he was able to get such fast service. What if he didn't return the card he was sold, but a card he had submitted that was rejected by PSA? He didn't even return the GAI slab it was in. Why not?

There are plenty of pictures of the card that was sold on ebay, right on the listing itself. Comparing the card sold to the card returned would be simple.

[bobbyw8469]

In this case, the card can still be resold for what it truly is - the reason the seller is upset is that the card can not be resold for what it was pretending to be.

As much as you don't want to believe it, the GAI holder did have SOME value - if only for the sheer gamblers aspect of it as to why this buyer bought it in the first place. GAI IS (well.....was....at one time) a respected name. Mike Baker IS a good grader. The buyer who cracked it out was hoping to make a monetary score by getting it into a PSA holder. He knew he was not getting a fake card. The same can't be said for a PRO holder. So, yes, the GAI card DID have some value. But now the seller doesn't even have that. He is forced to refund, and is getting a card that doesn't even have the GAI stamp of approval anymore. His option is now, as much as I hate to say it, is to play the "grading" game!!! What if it eventually gets into a PSA 7 holder?? All of the sudden it is now deemed "acceptable". I, for one, am dismayed that this is what the baseball card collection has become.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

As much as you don't want to believe it, the GAI holder did have SOME value - if only for the sheer gamblers aspect of it as to why this buyer bought it in the first place. GAI IS (well.....was....at one time) a respected name. Mike Baker IS a good grader. The buyer who cracked it out was hoping to make a monetary score by getting it into a PSA holder. He knew he was not getting a fake card. The same can't be said for a PRO holder. So, yes, the GAI card DID have some value. But now the seller doesn't even have that. He is forced to refund, and is getting a card that doesn't even have the GAI stamp of approval anymore. His option is now, as much as I hate to say it, is to play the "grading" game!!! What if it eventually gets into a PSA 7 holder?? All of the sudden it is now deemed "acceptable". I, for one, am dismayed that this is what the baseball card collection has become.

The root problem is this: The card is doctored. The seller wants to sell it at a price commensurate with that of an undoctored card. That GAI holder gave him cover, now that cover is removed, and the card stands naked of its previous misrepresentation. It is what it is.

How many people on this site keep repeating: Buy the card, not the holder.

My opinion is that if had graded a PSA 1, I would be 100% on the side of the seller. We see all sorts of examples of grading companies having a difference of opinion on relative grade. But when a card is doctored, that is a whole different thing. That's deception on the part of somebody (probably not the seller, but somebody.)