T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



.... Sweet Caporal .... Sovereign .......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign .......... UZIT



This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

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INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #951 >> 960.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.


It fascinates me....the certain printing pattern similarities between the T206 & T205 sets. For example....(1) the 12 subjects in the T205 Minor League group, which is consistent
with my theory that American Lithographic (ALC) printed the T206 and T205 sets with a basic template of 12 cards across a given sheet (19-inch track width printing press).

(2) The AB = BL = CY = DRUM connection (see Posts #856 and #858) in this thread with respect to the T206 version of this printing pattern. And, you can refer to the current
thread on Net54 for the T205 version of this pattern...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=276902. This similarity is not serendipitous, it is by design.


Displayed here is one of my T205 (75%) complete A = B = C = D runs. If anyone on this forum has a spare BROAD LEAF Wolter, please email me....... tedzan11@comcast.net

................. ? ..………………….

.



The T205 group of 32 subjects which conform to this A = B = C = D pattern were printed with 8 additional Tobacco backs. I think a total of 12
different backs may be the most printed on any T205 subject. I may be wrong with this observation and I expect you T205 gurus will chime in.
Feel free to correct me.
Check-list of the T205 backs for this group of 32 subjects...………...

AMERICAN BEAUTY (black print)
BROAD LEAF
CYCLE
DRUM
HASSAN (Factory #30)
HASSAN (Factory #649)
HONEST LONG CUT
PIEDMONT (Factory #25)
PIEDMONT (Factory #42)
POLAR BEAR
SOVEREIGN
SWEET CAPORAL (red print)

And, just as in the T206 set, the T205 BROAD LEAF and DRUM and PIEDMONT Factory #42 cards are very tough to find.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Exactly 14 years ago this month, I broke up my variable-back T206 set (521 cards) to seek the ultimate T206 run of an all - PIEDMONT set.
PIEDMONT Mission accomplished just 11 months later, I then continued on an all - SOVEREIGN set. At the same time, I was also collecting
T206's for an all - SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set.

I completed the SOVEREIGN set (408 cards) in less than a year. The SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set took me 10 years to complete (468
cards) when I finally acquired the Eddie Plank card.

One nice feature which these 3 sets have in common, is you don't have to get the Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis variations). Furthermore, the
Southern Leaguers were not printed with SOVEREIGN or this SWEET CAPORAL backs.

And, here is my favorite T206 card in each of these 3 sets..... WOW ! all three of these cards are graded. Ted has gone over to the "dark side"


PIEDMONT set




SOVEREIGN set





SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set





TED Z
.

[JackW]

Awesome update, Ted.

You set the bar so high.

[Rhotchkiss]

Ted, I find that Piedmont and Sovereign 150s can tend to be off center top-bottom, with a smaller top border. But that Sweet Cap 150s (fact 30 or otherwise) do not suffer a similar fate. Thoughts?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Ted, I find that Piedmont and Sovereign 150s can tend to be off center top-bottom, with a smaller top border. But that Sweet Cap 150s (fact 30 or otherwise) do not suffer a similar fate. Thoughts?

Happy New Year, Ryan

Your observation is correct. Especially, with certain PIEDMONT 150 cards. The Green Cobb is one of the best
examples of off-center top-bottom, with a smaller top border. Here is the Cobb in my PIEDMONT set...........

.



TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





I have identified a group of 36 subjects in the 350-only Series which are unique in this Series in that they share a common pattern. They were NOT PRINTED with
these four popular T206 backs....CAROLINA BRIGHTS, El PRINCIPE de GALES, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR. The majority (190 subjects) in the 350-only Series
were printed with AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, DRUM backs. And, including the CB, EPDG, OM, and PB backs.

Although, this group of 36 subjects is printed with the A - B - C - D backs, unlike the other 350-only Series subjects, these cards will not be found with CB, EPDG,
OM, and PB backs
I find this quite interesting, in that it tells us that these 36 guys are sort of "exclusive" with respect to the other 154 subjects in the 350-only Series. Furthermore,
it suggests that these 36 subjects were printed on a sheet of their own (composed of multiples of a 12 x 3 card format)….and, this press run was very early in the
game (circa Spring of 1910). I base this on my understanding that the CAROLINA BRIGHTS and POLAR BEAR backs were not printed until the Summer of 1910.

I'm sharing this information with you guys, who get a big kick out of putting together T206 runs. So you do not have to go off on a wild-goose chase searching for
certain cards that really do not exist.

Checklist of this "exclusive" group of 36 subjects that are 350-only series No-Prints with respect to CAROLINA BRIGHTS, EPDG, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR backs.

Arndt
Becker
Butler
Cassidy
Charles
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Downs
Fletcher
Hoffman (St Louis)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hunter
Killian (portrait)
Knabe
Lennox
Malarkey
Marquard (portrait)
Marshall

McBride
McElveen
McGinley
McIntyre (Detroit)
Mitchell (Cincinnati)
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moran (Providence)
Myers (batting)
Paskert
Phelan
Poland
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Schmidt (portrait)
Starr
Street (portrait)
Summers


Any inputs regarding this subject are really appreciated.

Note.....
In my rush to post this, I forgot to include in my original post here that the EPDG backs are also No-Prints within this group of 36.
EPDG has been included now.


TED Z
.