Darren's Rovell take on PWCC, etc.

[barrysloate]

Here's the irony: if the TPG's were able to upgrade with technology that could detect every alteration, so many of the cards they graded over the years would be found to be doctored. And the refunds their clients would demand would bankrupt all of them.

So what is the incentive to implement something that will put them out of business?

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Here's the irony: if the TPG's were able to upgrade with technology that could detect every alteration, so many of the cards they graded over the years would be found to be doctored. And the refunds their clients would demand would bankrupt all of them.

So what is the incentive to implement something that will put them out of business?

PSA would have no incentive. SGC, I'm not sure, as with it they could probably bankrupt PSA if the result is a flood of customers invoking the grading guaranty, not to mention it would be great advertising fodder if it shows their grading services to be superior to PSA's.

But what's to stop a new TPG entrant? It would certainly be different than anything that currently exists and has the potential to be very profitable.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

PSA would have no incentive. SGC, I'm not sure, as with it they could probably bankrupt PSA if the result is a flood of customers invoking the grading guaranty, not to mention it would be great advertising fodder if it shows their grading services to be superior to PSA's.

But what's to stop a new TPG entrant? It would certainly be different than anything that currently exists and has the potential to be very profitable.

The odds of PSA going bankrupt are slim to none.....And slim just left the station

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

The odds of PSA going bankrupt are slim to none.....And slim just left the station

I would think that the TPGs all have some kind of insurance, to cover themselves if something like this happened.

Wouldn't surprise me 5-10 ten years from now, that people would think something is wrong with a card if its in an old TPG holder where it was graded by a human. Let new technology grade it with consistent standards, and let the new registry game begin.

Its like trying to sell a raw card now, where someone thinks its bad since not Blessed by a TPG. If/when I consign a card to sell, Ill use the best TPG at that time. Hopefully a new company comes into the grading arena, and raises the bar.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

I would think that the TPGs all have some kind of insurance, to cover themselves if something like this happened.

Wouldn't surprise me 5-10 ten years from now, that people would think something is wrong with a card if its in an old TPG holder where it was graded by a human. Let new technology grade it with consistent standards, and let the new registry game begin.

Its like trying to sell a raw card now, where someone thinks its bad since not Blessed by a TPG. If/when I consign a card to sell, Ill use the best TPG at that time. Hopefully a new company comes into the grading arena, and raises the bar.

Agree......

Maybe a good time to sell now When Ignorance, Turning a Blind Eye and Kool Aid Drinking seem to be at an all time high....most don’t get it or care....they’re addicted to the PSA grade that’s all that matters. I believe the time to Dump is now while the sheeple are still attached to the hip of PSA

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Agree......

Maybe a good time to sell now When Ignorance, Turning a Blind Eye and Kool Aid Drinking seem to be at an all time high....most don’t get it or care....they’re addicted to the PSA grade that’s all that matters. I believe the time to Dump is now while the sheeple are still attached to the hip of PSA

I'm confused by this. Please tell me if I am understanding this incorrectly. You do believe that a lot(I don't know what your personal take is % wise) of PSA cards are altered. Yet you are suggesting that people dump their PSA cards to people who are either turning a blind eye to the situation or ignorant of the situation? Basically to pawn off possibly altered cards to the next guy? I mean, isn't that what everyone is pissed at PWCC for doing?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

I'm confused by this. Please tell me if I am understanding this incorrectly. You do believe that a lot(I don't know what your personal take is % wise) of PSA cards are altered. Yet you are suggesting that people dump their PSA cards to people who are either turning a blind eye to the situation or ignorant of the situation? Basically to pawn off possibly altered cards to the next guy? I mean, isn't that what everyone is pissed at PWCC for doing?

I’ve never suggested pawning off possibly altered cards to the next guy. That’s not what everyone is pissed off at PWCC for. The whole PwCC issue has been discussed at nauseam on this board and countless others. I’ve sold off most of my PSA graded cards over the past year none of which have been altered, they were all submitted by myself from virgin raw collections.

I do believe a large percentage of PSA graded cards with number grades are altered. Pre war having the most second to post war era cards.

My point is that people are buying cards in PSA holders not caring about the card just the number on the slab....People Buy the Holder Not the Card.....In the long run I believe it’s going to be the other way around....

It wouldn’t shock me if most prospective buyer begin to second guess and highly scrutinize every PSA card as having issues prior to buying.....I know I would.

I have zero faith in their Opinion unless I graded the card myself, know the full history of card, and or have it in hand to visually look at, I’m highly suspect.

[perezfan]

nm

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

PSA would have no incentive. SGC, I'm not sure, as with it they could probably bankrupt PSA if the result is a flood of customers invoking the grading guaranty, not to mention it would be great advertising fodder if it shows their grading services to be superior to PSA's.

But what's to stop a new TPG entrant? It would certainly be different than anything that currently exists and has the potential to be very profitable.

Wouldn't that be a hoot- a new TPG entering the market with state of the art technology and exposing all of the bad cards of its competitors. Now that is something I would like to see.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I was actually approached about joining a grading start up about two weeks before this scandal broke. I turned it down due to the conflict of interest and concern about the company having enough money for the initial huge marketing push that would be necessary.

I had to rethink my initial response long and hard after the scandal broke, but if I changed careers again my wife would kill me, and I don't see how you can run an auction and be a party involved with a grading company.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I was actually approached about joining a grading start up about two weeks before this scandal broke. I turned it down due to the conflict of interest and concern about the company having enough money for the initial huge marketing push that would be necessary.

I had to rethink my initial response long and hard after the scandal broke, but if I changed careers again my wife would kill me, and I don't see how you can run an auction and be a party involved with a grading company.

Most stamp expertisers also have other jobs, sometimes as a dealer. They don't work at the companies location, but with batches of stuff in their specialty that are mailed to them. (Some probably do work at the organizations location)

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I was actually approached about joining a grading start up about two weeks before this scandal broke. I turned it down due to the conflict of interest and concern about the company having enough money for the initial huge marketing push that would be necessary.

I had to rethink my initial response long and hard after the scandal broke, but if I changed careers again my wife would kill me, and I don't see how you can run an auction and be a party involved with a grading company.

Scott, someone with the integrity to even see the conflict of interest is exactly who is needed to head up such an effort. I'll bet you could come up with an ethical policy that could firewall your existing business and your efforts with a new grading service. For starters, never grade your own cards, never auction cards your new grading service has graded, and etc.

Eventually, being in on the ground floor of a grading service that is committed to catching alterations using the best, most current technologies, and constantly improving detection methods, would be more profitable than your current business (and probably more rewarding, being part of a solution to this huge problem.)

Look, if wealthy politicians can put their assets in a blind trust and continue to make policy decisions that have huge impact on their portfolios, you could do it much simpler by separating your inventory and auction material from the stuff you grade.

Any successful new TPG will need experienced card dealers, and the fact you are even concerned about the conflict tells me you have the ethical makeup necessary.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Scott, someone with the integrity to even see the conflict of interest is exactly who is needed to head up such an effort. I'll bet you could come up with an ethical policy that could firewall your existing business and your efforts with a new grading service. For starters, never grade your own cards, never auction cards your new grading service has graded, and etc.

Eventually, being in on the ground floor of a grading service that is committed to catching alterations using the best, most current technologies, and constantly improving detection methods, would be more profitable than your current business (and probably more rewarding, being part of a solution to this huge problem.)

Look, if wealthy politicians can put their assets in a blind trust and continue to make policy decisions that have huge impact on their portfolios, you could do it much simpler by separating your inventory and auction material from the stuff you grade.

Any successful new TPG will need experienced card dealers, and the fact you are even concerned about the conflict tells me you have the ethical makeup necessary.

I appreciate the thought, and even considered the "not selling cards the company graded" route. The problem with that would be if the grading company became successful and developed a reputation for missing very few altered cards, and my company refuses to sell them. My own success in one venture would actually harm the other venture. Not to mention having to turn down consignments with cards from the grading company. There's just no way to make it work that I can see.

The party that approached me is one of the most honest guys I've met, and I was incredibly flattered that he though enough of me to ask. I'm hoping he finds a path forward with someone else trustworthy, and frankly more knowledgeable than me. I know a lot, but it's a drop in the bucket in comparison to many I've met on this board. I'd be spending a LOT of time on research for some of the more esoteric items as they came in.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I appreciate the thought, and even considered the "not selling cards the company graded" route. The problem with that would be if the grading company became successful and developed a reputation for missing very few altered cards, and my company refuses to sell them. My own success in one venture would actually harm the other venture. Not to mention having to turn down consignments with cards from the grading company. There's just no way to make it work that I can see.

My thought is that such a grading company is so badly needed, and has so much profit potential, that as you grow the grading service you gradually transition out of the dealer business. Then you're a major force in the hobby with no possible conflicts, supporting your family well, collecting whatever you want for your own collection, all with the satisfaction that you're not just making customers happy by selling them cards, you're giving them a comfort level with the purchases they are making.

On your 100th birthday, looking back, which would be a more satisfying legacy? I'm not saying it would be easy or that success would be guaranteed, but eventually somebody will do it. It sure isn't in the best interest for existing TPG to add new technological testing methods to their process that would reveal all the alterations they missed..... So, whomever does start this new, high tech grading service.... for everybody's sake the #1 priority must be integrity.

On a side note, could black light or infrared reveal modern foreign substances like coloring, rebuilt corners, or bleach through a plastic holder? Wouldn't it be cool if it could, and someone could set up at The National with a machine where, for $5.00, people could put their PSA or other graded cards under the lights for a quick alteration detection scan?

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Here's the irony: if the TPG's were able to upgrade with technology that could detect every alteration, so many of the cards they graded over the years would be found to be doctored. And the refunds their clients would demand would bankrupt all of them.

So what is the incentive to implement something that will put them out of business?

Well a new competitor TPG with a strong product wouldn't mind doing it...