Darren's Rovell take on PWCC, etc.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

Ultimately we as the consumers in this market are going to vote with our wallets based on how the vendors in this market handle the current situation. I’m not suggesting for a moment that people shouldn’t be doing that whenever they feel it is appropriate, even right away.

I spent half the day looking through my house for all my slabs to figure out which ones I'm sending to COMC for sale on Monday.
On their way:
50 from HOF Autos Collection
170 of 1952 Topps Baseball
50 of 1952 Topps Baseball Autographed
150 cards of Mickey Mantle on the Master Set Registry
113 cards of the T121 World War I set
70 of the 80 cards in the 1959 Fleer Ted Williams set
Mattingly Rookie Set (plus Nestle and Tiffany)
Mark Teixeira Rookie Set (plus a bunch of others)
32 Bobby Jones
30 Christopher Columbus
8 N43
13 T6
Whole bunch of odds and ends, along with the 32 cards from the board bulk submission going straight to COMC.

Sending my complete set of R184 Indian Chiefs and some other odds and ends to the next Nonsports Auction.

So I'm clearing out 750 PSA slabs out of my collection. For now, I'll be keeping the #1 rated T51 Murad Colleges set and the T56 Fraternal Emblems. I submitted the vast majority of those cards from collections I purchased on eBay, and believe them to be good.

I was a pretty big PSA homer until this latest scandal broke, and the post on the CU board from 15 years ago where Joe Orlando said it's better to let trimmers/alterers continue to submit to PSA rather than taking away their privileges being dredged up really teed me off.

In order for this scandal to actually get PSA to change, I want to see a big drop in the value of PSA graded slabs. And less people to submit. And more people to protest. We've still only reached a minority of PSA collectors. I reached out to one guy who had 13 cards in one set exposed as trimmed by Blowout. This guy wasn't contacted by PSA or PWCC to tell him his cards were altered.

It requires the crowd-sourcing BO has been doing in order to make people aware of the fraud perpetrated against them.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I spent half the day looking through my house for all my slabs to figure out which ones I'm sending to COMC for sale on Monday.
On their way:
50 from HOF Autos Collection
170 of 1952 Topps Baseball
50 of 1952 Topps Baseball Autographed
150 cards of Mickey Mantle on the Master Set Registry
113 cards of the T121 World War I set
70 of the 80 cards in the 1959 Fleer Ted Williams set
Mattingly Rookie Set (plus Nestle and Tiffany)
Mark Teixeira Rookie Set (plus a bunch of others)
32 Bobby Jones
30 Christopher Columbus
8 N43
13 T6
Whole bunch of odds and ends, along with the 32 cards from the board bulk submission going straight to COMC.

Sending my complete set of R184 Indian Chiefs and some other odds and ends to the next Nonsports Auction.

So I'm clearing out 750 PSA slabs out of my collection. For now, I'll be keeping the #1 rated T51 Murad Colleges set and the T56 Fraternal Emblems. I submitted the vast majority of those cards from collections I purchased on eBay, and believe them to be good.

I was a pretty big PSA homer until this latest scandal broke, and the post on the CU board from 15 years ago where Joe Orlando said it's better to let trimmers/alterers continue to submit to PSA rather than taking away their privileges being dredged up really teed me off.

In order for this scandal to actually get PSA to change, I want to see a big drop in the value of PSA graded slabs. And less people to submit. And more people to protest. We've still only reached a minority of PSA collectors. I reached out to one guy who had 13 cards in one set exposed as trimmed by Blowout. This guy wasn't contacted by PSA or PWCC to tell him his cards were altered.

It requires the crowd-sourcing BO has been doing in order to make people aware of the fraud perpetrated against them.

Wow that’s pretty serious !

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I spent half the day looking through my house for all my slabs to figure out which ones I'm sending to COMC for sale on Monday.
On their way:
50 from HOF Autos Collection
170 of 1952 Topps Baseball
50 of 1952 Topps Baseball Autographed
150 cards of Mickey Mantle on the Master Set Registry
113 cards of the T121 World War I set
70 of the 80 cards in the 1959 Fleer Ted Williams set
Mattingly Rookie Set (plus Nestle and Tiffany)
Mark Teixeira Rookie Set (plus a bunch of others)
32 Bobby Jones
30 Christopher Columbus
8 N43
13 T6
Whole bunch of odds and ends, along with the 32 cards from the board bulk submission going straight to COMC.

Sending my complete set of R184 Indian Chiefs and some other odds and ends to the next Nonsports Auction.

So I'm clearing out 750 PSA slabs out of my collection. For now, I'll be keeping the #1 rated T51 Murad Colleges set and the T56 Fraternal Emblems. I submitted the vast majority of those cards from collections I purchased on eBay, and believe them to be good.

I was a pretty big PSA homer until this latest scandal broke, and the post on the CU board from 15 years ago where Joe Orlando said it's better to let trimmers/alterers continue to submit to PSA rather than taking away their privileges being dredged up really teed me off.

In order for this scandal to actually get PSA to change, I want to see a big drop in the value of PSA graded slabs. And less people to submit. And more people to protest. We've still only reached a minority of PSA collectors. I reached out to one guy who had 13 cards in one set exposed as trimmed by Blowout. This guy wasn't contacted by PSA or PWCC to tell him his cards were altered.

It requires the crowd-sourcing BO has been doing in order to make people aware of the fraud perpetrated against them.

List them on here before they go to the wasteland that COMC has become. I know you are still a great seller over there. Sadly most others are listing at beyond museum prices.

[Golfcollector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

List them on here before they go to the wasteland that COMC has become. I know you are still a great seller over there. Sadly most others are listing at beyond museum prices.

+1 - I would take a peek at any Bobby Jones cards

[Johnny630]

PSA won't go out of business.....check out the lines at the National.

The masses do not care ......it's all about money to them.... Registry Guys, Dealers, Auction Houses, Flippers, collectors, and ebay sellers have all made money using PSA ...right, wrong, or whatever that won't be stopping anytime soon. Maybe a temporary pull back in prices.... that will be about it....

I will Highly Scrutinize any PSA Cards that I'm interested in buying.

[Peter_Spaeth]

PSA does a nice job of fixing damaged corners, eh?

See especially post 35 here.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...09#post1903709

[aconte]

[QUOTEIt is the responsibility of the major stakeholders to get to the bottom of things in a timely manner and then transparently let the hobby know what they have found and what they plan to do to address it and prevent similar episodes again in the future.

A few months time seems woefully insufficient for getting that done, but I would expect that it shouldn’t take more than the time that has elapsed already for some concrete information to be provided.

As for those who continue to create suspicion and doubt through unsubstantiated claims and speculation, that only defects from getting to the bottom of exactly what is and fuels an unhelpful, and potentially damaging, mob mentality.
][/QUOTE]

This is hilarious. I got to wait for a stakeholder to get to the bottom of things
whatever that means.

I've read your posts on CU and I recognize your opinions are on the opposite
ends of the spectrum with mine. Thank goodness!

[buymycards]

[QUOTE=swarmee;1903401]I spent half the day looking through my house for all my slabs to figure out which ones I'm sending to COMC for sale on Monday.

I see that COMC blogged that one of their members submitted 6000 slabbed cards. I'm thinking that COMC will be the next big dumping ground for altered cards. It may be happening already.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by buymycards

I see that COMC blogged that one of their members submitted 6000 slabbed cards. I'm thinking that COMC will be the next big dumping ground for altered cards. It may be happening already.

COMC is well aware of the scandal, and should be careful who they take consignments from as well. They were notified of one seller from the Dallas group that had a lot of cards for sale there (SuperiorSportsInvestments), and that seller currently has 45 graded cards for sale out of over 13,000 total.

But you're right, people should be aware of the cards they're looking at from every source, be it eBay, COMC, shows, auction houses, PWCC, etc.

[bobbyw8469]

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

[barrysloate]

If the hobby decides to accept the alterations because collectors will want to protect their investments, then I can assure you that after the card doctors are done popping the champagne, they will continue to doctor and improve cards with a vengeance. Because they will surely realize that they won this battle.

So imagine a hobby a few years down the road where thousands and thousands of new high grade cards have materialized out of thin air, and a hobby where there are so many high grade cards that even collectors with limited budgets can have a solid standing on the set registry.

The choice that PSA made to minimize this issue, and to put blame on a bunch of disgruntled hobbyists for complaining about this on a chat board, will open the door for a whole new generation of card doctors.

It's going to get really ugly if this scandal is not faced head on. Given enough time nearly every card will either be doctored, or there will at least be the fear that any high grade card cannot be trusted. You can't just sweep this under the rug. That's a short term bandage and a long term disaster.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

If the hobby decides to accept the alterations

I think that's where we're heading.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

I think that's where we're heading.

The last laugh would be on the high rollers currently trying to protect PSA, as their "high grade" collections will become less rare and less valuable.

[bnorth]

[QUOTE=buymycards;1904148]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I spent half the day looking through my house for all my slabs to figure out which ones I'm sending to COMC for sale on Monday.

I see that COMC blogged that one of their members submitted 6000 slabbed cards. I'm thinking that COMC will be the next big dumping ground for altered cards. It may be happening already.

I have only seen a few altered card on COMC that they did not catch when listing. I have bought easily 1000 cards off COMC in the past. In the last several months I have only bought 2 because of the insane listed prices. Those 2 cards were bought from swarmee who is one of the very few to price cards at their value.

As examples i recently was looking to upgrade a few 55 Bowmans and 59 Fleer Ted Williams cards. I bought the Bowmams off eBay for 25% of the lowest prices on COMC. The 59 Fleer prices are insane, you can buy graded NrMint and better cards on eBay for less than the ungraded beaters are priced on COMC.