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#1
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As for the pixels 48 leafs fakes are printed 82 Ripkin fakes are printed, why not print this? I took the OP post about card stock to mean it was on what looked like normal card stock but weighed about half what a real gold coin should. Which to me raised a Red Flag. Maybe I am a skeptic and raise the Red Fag quickly ( but to be fair someone else raised one 2 hours before me) but I believe it is better to stand ready with the red flag than to hang the lollipop flag out. |
#2
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I am happy to be wrong because a new card this late in the game is an awesome find, but I just can't get past the fact that the front does not look right to me at all. Respect all opinions, but I do not see an authentic Buchner when I look at the image of the front.
Last edited by packs; 07-23-2019 at 02:51 PM. |
#3
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Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#4
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Damn, was wondering why this thread has been still at the top. Now I'm hooked on what the card turns out to be!
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Successful B/S/T deals with asoriano, obcbobd, x2dRich2000, eyecollectvintage, RepublicaninMass, Kwikford, Oneofthree67, jfkheat, scottglevy, whitehse, GoldenAge50s, Peter Spaeth, Northviewcats, megalimey, BenitoMcNamara, Edwolf1963, mightyq, sidepocket, darwinbulldog, jasonc, jessejames, sb1, rjackson44, bobbyw8469, quinnsryche, Carter08, philliesfan and ALBB, Buythatcard and JimmyC so far. |
#5
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Anson, thanks for the reply. Jonathan, the printing experts have stated it would cost a lot of money to make it appear like a 19th century card. I assume they mean it would cost more than $200. $200 is what it will probably cost to buy Jay and Henry dinner (ha-ha). Without anymore input from the OP, I'm going to lose interest in this topic. He hasn't offered it for sale that I know of, and I'm not 100% sure he even has it in hand at this point. Rob
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Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades) Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc |
#6
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Agreed waiting with anticipation for update from OP but again it is not easy to get it in the hands of a few knowledgeable collectors unless you attend a decent sized card show. Maybe it will turn up at the national?
Maybe the OP will share his plans. As for the printing cost it can vary widely. If image was taken from a previous source vs artist drawn ( I use that term loosely). So I would not rule out some level of printing. |
#7
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Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades) Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc |
#8
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82 Ripken fakes are modern printing duplicating modern printing and were done in quantity. Making a single gold coin the old fashioned way? With the right sort of shading and mix of solid and halftone areas. (If it's halftone and not one of the earlier types) That takes a lot. There are art lithographers who could do it, but I believe it would cost more than a couple hundred. Of course there's probably some kid in China who can knock them out for $5 each. I'd still like to see a high res scan. If it's done recently, like anytime postwar, it will be obvious. The only point that seems a red flag, is the image size on the card. It does seem odd that they'd make one that had an image size much different than normal. I don't know the set well enough to know if the image size varied a lot or was consistent. |
#9
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Thanks Steve:
The point I was trying to make was that the absence of pixels would not be enough to say that the card was produced in the 1880's. That there are a number of ways to produce a card like this using less expensive printing technology than 1887 period lithography with stone or metal plates. I used the 1948 leaf and Ripkin rookie examples to show that even common fakes dont have pixels. As I stated earlier similar fakes I have come across did not show pixels under a 15x loop. |
#10
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The Buchner's I've handled all have this creamy type of image on them. I don't know of another way to describe it other than "creamy". When I look at the scan provided by the OP I see a washed out image that doesn't have a lot in common with the Buchner's I've handled.
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#11
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"A little learning is a dangerous thing. Drink deep or taste not the Pierian spring."
Here's a 78 Topps Bartkowski, a T213-3 Matty, and a Buchner at 1200 dpi. The OP could buy a Buchner and compare it to what he has under a magnifying glass. It may not be definitive, but it's better than nothing.
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Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades) Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc |
#12
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Brian |
#13
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Buchner - essentially hand done stippling for everything. If there's a dot pattern, it's almost entirely random. Fairly transparent solid colors for mixing. T206 - A bit of a hybrid. Modern style halftone in black, but with backgrounds that are mostly the same as the earlier style. The modern halftone would have been generated photographically with a screen. Most use more than 6 colors 78 Topps - Nearly all halftone, generated photographically using color filters. Only four colors, CMYK and a finer tighter screen than they used in 1910. A few solid areas, mostly borders etc. But those are done on the same negative as the original screen. Newer stuff will have screening that's even finer, but it's essentially the same. There's subtle stuff you can't see well if at all in scans, like how thick/thin the ink lays on the paper, or which layers are over what other layers. Sometimes that's even hard to tell in person. |
#14
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I originally started this thread to try and figure out what a handful of un-checklisted N284 Buchner (like) cards might be. Yes…there were 3…and I randomly chose the Toole card as the example to share. My focus is non-sports, but I like Buchner cards in general, so when I came across this baseball grouping I was interested in learning more about them especially since the lot may include a few cards (or cut-outs) that nobody has seen before.
The total collection had over 60 cards in it. All cards had evidence of album removal, usual age toning, and as an overall group just looked right to me. All but 5 of the cards were non-sports. The 5 sports cards looked like N284’s; 1 with the standard printed back, 4 with blank backs. 2 of the 5 cards appear on current N284 checklists. As I mentioned above, my original post was in search of information. I never said that the Toole card was mine. The collection of 60+ cards were a part of a smaller, regional, usually non-card auction house’s “active” offering. I know that others on this board were aware of the active listing status through pm, but I wasn’t going to out this active listing in this thread. I’m sure you get that. All I had to go by were the same pictures you looked at (plus the others I did not post), some basic size and provenance info passed along by the auction house, and your expert opinions. I did not have a dog in this fight and could have easily opted out of participating in the auction if there was clear, convincing evidence of “fake” work in-play. I wasn’t convinced of that, and actually think that one poster here may have had ulterior motives, working really hard to convince the Net54 baseball community that the Toole card wasn’t from the late 1880’s. I suspect that he was aware of the active listing. Below are pictures of all 5 Buchner (or Buchner like) cards or cut-outs that were in the auction. Originally the auction house only posted one backside pic, and that was of the printed back, so I assumed wrong in my original post that the others were the same. I’ve also included a few of the non-sport images. Jeff |
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